VC4 Idex Belts

Hello, I tried to fasten my belts but no matter what I try I always get a bad result. Best I archived until now is attached. What I tried: https://www.printables.com/model/151815-belt-tensioner-meter-9-mm-petg-prusament Tuning the belts to 85 Hz with the "Realtiem Analysis" and also what is in the commision guide. Is there anything I missed?
Printables.com
Belt tensioner meter 9 mm, PETG Prusament by Locki | Download free ...
For 9 mm belts, print from PETG Prusament like original model | Download free 3D printable STL models
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699 Replies
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
These are the input shapre graphs
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
same boat as you curious to see what people say graphs are similar to urs
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
1e3 usually means binding.
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
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VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
Check your belt path. Also you gota lot of noise everywhere.
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
so e4 and up is what we should aim for?
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
That or e5, if it's super cleanish.
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
Checked belts several times but it won't be better. I have the feeling that the x axis linear rail feels a bit stiff when belts are thightened to the right amount. I already checkt if it is bent but it seems to be straight.
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
There are some severe mehanical issues if you have these graphs on the X especially. X / DC should be "easy" to get cleaner graphs. If you get this on X as well you have some mehanical stuff as I said. Recheck, triple check everything
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
I checked all bearings also the belt paths and the rails. What else can I do?
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
You are binding somewhere, so either your rails are at the front/back not the same Or something is putting imense stress @Prav Is more a belt tension guy, if he can help.
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
Is there a guide I can follow? Since I dissasambled and reassambled and checked alot of these things I may miss the solution I'm searching for.
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
Now that everything was dissasambled and reassambled again. I have better results but again something seems to be off.
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
how tight are ur bearing stacks?
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
@D00M-_ which ones do you mean?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
all of them try loosening them a bit and see what changes also, have you tried to vibrate the machine using realtime analysis and see what it sounds like?
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
I will try to loosen them a bit. I tried the realtime analysis yes but I didn't find anything loose or else something off
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
did you got through the axis? x, y, x+y, x-y? what frequency did you tune ur belts to?
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
just tried y because I assumed that that's the one with issues, x belts to 85,4 Hz and the hybrid y belts to 95,5 Hz
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
what did u use to meassure?
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
I tired to find the resonance which creats the peaks
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
did you do this with realtime? where u have the toolhead in the center and you pluck the belt and see what frequency peak comes up? also how do ur meassure belt graphs look
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
loosening the bearing stacks didn't change anything
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
by loosening did you make then have play or are they still secure? i had weird vibrations because i overtightended them
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
they are still secure
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
is the gantery square?
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
yes
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
try tunning the y belts at a lower frequncy
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
Those are the belt graphs
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
y look better then x even tho ur input shaper is the other way around in ur x graph they are not equal tension
Pescados
Pescadosโ€ข2mo ago
Random question (throwing rice at the wall): could unequal belt length cause this?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
dono, i tired to get them equal. Cut them in half then messured the ends of the belts coming out of the grabbers and they are equal im in the same boat as him
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
y is always fucked
Pescados
Pescadosโ€ข2mo ago
Hmm, I just finished my toolhead assembly so only have accessories, panels and electronics left to do. Will continue after 14d holiday and will stay engaged here once I can talk with my own belt graphs experience.
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
The lack of guides reguarding this really sucks
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
It would be great if in the assembling guide would be a "how to fasten the belts".
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
There is for the standard one. But nothing there translates to idex
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
You have Extreme noise SOmething is loose. Either a bolt or something Anything above 110 I think it something usually loose or vibrating, etc.
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
so apart from taking it apart a 5th time or using realtime analysis and going through the frequencies. What else would u recommend as a diagnostic method
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
Best bed is the toolhead, that something is perhaps loose, all wires and stuff should be ziptied and they should not move at all. Next thing i suggest is checking how tight you actually ar. Maybe you are too tight on the Y?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
Wires are ziptied
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
When they resonate they slap the extrusion
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
That is normal
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
when you change tension do you deconnect the blocks ?
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
But 125 just screems somehting is not idealy tightened or is loose. Like a bolt or somehting, the rapido as well can be vibrating if its not snug etc. Wdym, disconnecto the blocks?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
used purple locktight on that
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
On what, the rapido?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
the top bots holding the whole asembly
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
before everytime i would change tension the gantery would skew so now to avoide that i unscrew them and change
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
If it skews your belt length is not the samw If it's all the same you wouldn't have this issue belt length wise
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
so whats a good way to fix the belt issue? what i did was: Cut the belts in half, then count the teeth left out of the grabber on both sides there are 15 teeth left also another thing, if the printer is left alone, the belt tenssion changes
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
one hour ago both peaks where the same amplitude and now they are different
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
gantry is still square
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
The amplitude say it's not the same because from the grabber if your gantry isn't perfect you can easily. Miss a teeth You should remove the belts and count it that way.
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
they where placed side by side and compared under tension and when instaned i clamped the gantry to the front of the printer so it woudnt move
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
Y belts are equal to the tooth
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
And so is x
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Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
@VisualTech48 same with mine?
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
Then put them back at the same tooth and put the machine all the way back. Them tighten the x and dc belts while keeping it flush with the back plates. Once you've tighten jt enough put the y belts And then do the same. Also when your put the the x rail to the back make sure that your toolheads are both in the middle You can even zip tie them together while your doing this then after you've tighten it remove the zip tie and adjust based on graphs.
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
i cant visualize this. In what way do you zip tie them also do the front tensioners have to be equal?
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
I'll show it when I get to my pri ter. The machine is imperfect the front tensioners tell you nothing. Don't focus if they are the same way in. Graphs will tell you that.
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
before adding the belts i mean, If one is further in the the other. Would that make one belt longer then the other ?
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
Without tension you can't tell because you can rack it easily by hand.
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
ok, i will start getting the belts in the motor mounts and wait for the ziptie trick
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
Its not really hard to grasp, I've tried to explain it
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
oh, i thought u ment ziptie the belts somehow ok will try now @Anrot might as well do this together. Our graphs where similar and we both did the same troubleshooting before:D
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
I'm on it
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
IDEX is difficult, but with patiance you will get there.
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
@VisualTech48 aight followed all the instructions and now im here
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
how do i get it equal now without breaking it XD
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
Don't do y belt tension on idex. For idex for y you look at the is. It's the same freq but different amplitude. Which means if the belts are the same like you claim some part of the path is longer.
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
im doing is now
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
Ie your motor mounts could not be perfect with the extrusion. But the graph is cleaner now Run is let's see
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
Would this much deviation cause the longer belt path?
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
And the other side
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VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
I see gaps. Well your belt tension grapg Basicly says that one of your belt is longet But they are at the same tension It's okey to have that but I feel it's a tad too much gap between them in your case
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
here is the is
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
ill loosen the belts and get the motor mounts flush then ill do it all again
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
You still have some noise on the lower end of hz now that can be anything really. But by the looks of it it's basicly the same tension so you just need to clean it up Look for input shaper on YouTube maybe there could be a bit more info what could it be as well
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
Tried what you told us. I think I'm will use the printer as a table. No matter what I do it is always a mess.
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VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
I don't understand why you folks jsut drop the towel, this is a DIY printer, the idex was known and it is far more difficult to tune. Have patience, and go from slack Towards more tense First make your your X and DC is tight enough Then go to the Y belts. So its tense but not too tnese, as if you go overboard by just 1/8 of the screw you can have horrid graphgs.
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
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VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
You are still binding somewhere.
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
somehow one belt is shorter then another. When the gantry is at the back and both toolheads are in the center, and i tighten the x/dc belt so the gantery is square. If i pluck each belt there is a noticable change in frequency. So my question is, which belt do i shorten and which belt do i make longer?
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
Pluck test is not the best method. On the IDEX that is at leeast. Because no machine is perfect, so if you combine a lot of minor differences in distance, you can have that.
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
This usually again indicates, difference in belt leght, if its the same hz but different amplitude. Usually.
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VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
It should be a bit closer basicly, overlapping would be ideal.
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
so remove teeth from the right and add to the left? or just do one side?
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
The issue stems that Y as well pulls the gantry. You can try in your case, if we look at this graph, to release 1 tooth from the right toolhead, and then tension it again to be the same hz. It should come far closer.
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
This was after doing the motor mounts
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
im a try this
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
Try it, and the Y graphs indiciate an issue, in your case at least. You managed to nail the same hz, but you have issues with 125+ hz which is something again, saddly loose. You can easily see how Y effects it, if you pull one more of the y and you will see some changes on X as well.
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
Find the cause of this, it will help as well.
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
could the loose part be anywhere on the printer or just the motion side?
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
Could be even a fan ๐Ÿ˜„ Its that sensitive. Doesn't mean it will affect your prints though but it can.
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
ill start taking parts off then :))
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
Just tighten stuff, see what could be loose. I had a t nut that didn't grab correctly on my sides And it showed on the grahp
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
this might be something to look at im a redo the rails then just to be sure
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
You'd be suprized how many stuff can resonante. It again doesn't mean 100% it will affect your prints. That is why you should not go for perfection but yeah Y is a mess. When Y is somewhat decent you run an acceleration test, and a VFA test. I think someone has a 3.1 idex and has amazing speeds and such With not ideal graphs seemingly.
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
tightened everything that i could
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
back to the previous step havent touched the belts
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
This is actually good. You have it Criss Corss Now you do one belt or the other, and it should "stabilize"
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
how many teeth should i aim for ball park it
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
I'm not sure 100% but basicly if you tighten your right Y, your Left (X) should tighen more. Which should bring you up to speed, now with Y belts. Even the 1/8 can cause your graphs to be wobbly, So do it bit, remember what you moved and then retest.
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
my alen keys have about 1/10 play :)) going to be interesting
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
did 1/8 turn on y right and this is the result. X left went up. X right also went up
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
y right went down and so did y left im a do anoter 1/8 and do a z-tilt after and see whats up
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
that 2nd peak is coming back on y
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VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
Try to if you enagage left more to decrese right etc.
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
What he means when he says binding is that somewhere a pully/idler is rubbing or a pully/ idler is broken. Are you using the stock ones or the heavy duty? To check you need to spin them freely with ur hand and see if u feel resistance or its staggering
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
I use the Stock ones, all a Spinning freely
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
3D Printers & a Whiteboard
YouTube
How to Read and Analyze Input Shaper Graphs Generated by Klipper
This video is supposed to be a brief overview on what the input shaper graphs can tell us. It is the first video of a series of videos which will give a more in depth view on the kinematic system and input shaping in Klipper. As always: feel free to jump to those parts, that help you with your problems: 00:00 Intro 00:57 What we can learn from...
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
something has to be rubbing then find the problem and u will have better graphs
Portolasas
Portolasasโ€ข2mo ago
@Anrot I got the same/ a similar problem in the very beginning: And I also double and triple checked everything. In the end I just used trial and error, just adjusting belt tensions.
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Portolasas
Portolasasโ€ข2mo ago
Now, just tightening the X-belts I got from the above graphs to this:
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Portolasas
Portolasasโ€ข2mo ago
Its far from perfect, but shows very clearly, that just one (exactly!) revolution with the screwdriver to tighten the X-belts can sometimes make those huge spikes disappear.
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
I will try to start over again. Maybe i dissasembly the Idex belts and start with the core xy
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
im here now XD
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
1/8 turns at a time
Portolasas
Portolasasโ€ข2mo ago
I suspect that those belts rub against the extrusion in the very back when they are to loose
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
this staggered line is very similar on both of ours
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
cant wait for one of us to share what causes it:))
Portolasas
Portolasasโ€ข2mo ago
regarding the misaligned x-peaks; Should I try to get both to the 50-75 Hz range or how did you proceed?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
could be a belt lenght issue
Portolasas
Portolasasโ€ข2mo ago
I thought so too... Well I think I will try every possible X-adjustment first and then doing Y and we'll see whether I have to disassemble.
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
same boat as u
Portolasas
Portolasasโ€ข2mo ago
The 3.1 was also a process... Took seemingly way longer to get properly assembled but without the idex tuning was pretty fast
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
3.1 compared to this was a cake walk. Had that calibrated in one afternoon im a week deep in this one now
Portolasas
Portolasasโ€ข2mo ago
I assembled this one in about 28 hours and only had minor difficulties, biggest one was searching for the heavy duty idler pulleys I bought and haven't found till this day ๐Ÿ˜ญ
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
input shaper update. I have both y's on EI
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
better then 2hump_EI i was getting before
Portolasas
Portolasasโ€ข2mo ago
what do I do in such a case where one peak "disappears"?
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Portolasas
Portolasasโ€ข2mo ago
Here the corresponding shaper graphs, the T1 graphs look horrendeous
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
I had this happen, means you went to far loosen both sides and start again any idea what you did to smooth the 45 peak? also the 120hz thing can be the umbilical. Might want to tie those together the 40% of the way from the back panel i havent had time to play with it this weekend
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
i'm here now again I don't understand why now Y seems ok but x is catastropic
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
I think ur x is too tight Tune it to 60hz Around that range
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
with 60 Hz it is like this
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
Looks better tbh
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
thx for the suggestion of 60 Hz this is now the best I archived
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
Now the y is the issue that is problem ๐Ÿ˜‚ Im still struggling this that one also @Portolasas has better y then us Dude managed mzv ๐Ÿ˜ญ This thread will get more populated as more people get the idex and run into the same hurdles ๐Ÿ˜‚
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
Yes a bit more instruction in this topic would be great
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
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Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
any idea how to move on?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
Damn son Sexy And is?
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
not so sexy
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
I get the same peak at 50 and 125
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
Thats a lot of vibration on y U need to find the cause of that Im also trying to find it @VisualTech48 any guidance from here? @Anrot Have you tried to ziptie the two umbilicals half way together ? It helped a bit with the 125hz vibration for me
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
No they are not the ziptied toghether but the filament pipe(?) is ziptied to it
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
Try ziptieing them together half way through Also Do u have filament in ur extruders? And also, do u have the oss?
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
yes filament is in. Whats oss?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
Filament sensors for orbiter
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
ah no not jet
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
Interesting, i have them and was wondering if they where part of the vibration U just saved me disassembling them ๐Ÿ˜‚
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
๐Ÿ˜…
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
Our graphs are very similar Actually all 3 of ours Same peaks Dose you electronics panel vibrate?
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
a bit but would say this seems to be normal
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
Stick some rubber or foam in it to dampen it See if it helps
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
It would be great to have a list where parts of the printer and Hz are corresponding. For example the 50 Hz may be this or that.
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
We are the guinea pigs ๐Ÿ˜‚
Portolasas
Portolasasโ€ข2mo ago
Y and X are both very much not independent, I have tried so much, I may be able to share later, but I am currently not at home
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
Should I try to bring the X and Y resonance together?
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
Try it and see what happens Im at a christening so tmr ill get back on it
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
Sorry to say but since I invested about 20h in tuning belts and nothing really good came out I feel like Ratrig doesn't really care about us to get this printer working. To be honest until now I don't know how exactly I should start to tune them. My printer now is super slow (benchy 1h) and still the quality is not good. I understand it takes time but since we don't know what to do we are just guessing around.
Portolasas
Portolasasโ€ข2mo ago
I'm really sorry for you. I think the only thing that RatRig is really doing wrong is that they market the product a little bit wrong. It is simply not the case that everyone canbulit such a machine especially with the many new members to 3d printing. I started in 2019 and have rebuilt another printer to suit my own needs. I also built a V-core 3 and then upgraded it to a 3.1. Buying the 4 I very much knew which struggles I would have to endure and that there is no "out-of-the-box-experience". You need some mechanical, electrical and OS-experience to really be able to fix issues in an efficient manner and can feel very easily lost if you don't. I have an engineering background and thereby also some foundation which I can rely on. So of course some things might seem like common sense to me but might not to somebody else. And knowing very well that I have already struggled quite a bit with my setup I can understand your frustration. Two things to always keep in mind: So many people bought the 500 without needing it. I have a small business and I am looking into increasing my capabilities. A bigger printer isn't better; especially speed-wise. More moving mass means less speed, bigger tolerances (many that add up). And even more: A printer with two toolheads introduces more sources of resonance, even more mass and ESPECIALLY the two extra belts multiply the possible tightening scenarios by 4. The don't add to the other two, but are multiplating. So now some general findings of my own; keep in mind this is no scientific study; I just test and assume some fundamental findings. They might be wrong. 1. for X you want to have ZV or MZV and one high peak. Only one toolhead is moving from left to right, so ideally only the resonance frequency of the print head should ideally be visibale. In my case they don't perfectly align, which is okay since they have a different weight and thereby may also have a different frequency.
Portolasas
Portolasasโ€ข2mo ago
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Portolasas
Portolasasโ€ข2mo ago
2. As also mentioned in the comissioning guide, don't focus to much on the belt tension graphs. Since X and Y belts both assert force on X-axis, they are not independent. In my tests I would suggest to start with very low tensions and slowly increase them. First, create the peaks like above for X by tightening those belts, leave Y alone. For me this seems basic knowledge but ALWAYS watch the 1e4, 1e5, etc. It seems like many people don't understand that this is the scale of the axis. So e.g. 1e4 means take the number on the axis and multiply by 10^4. Of course, if your dominant peak increases in amplitude the "side" peaks seem smaller even though quite often they stay the same. 3. Focus on the shaper graphs. What you want to achieve is acceleration and not perfectly aligned belt tensions. From what I noticed, in my case, the gantry stayed square. 4. One eighth of a revolution can often make quite the difference. Many people said that and its true. Move slowly and patiently. Remember, that at least for the Y-belts, tightening the right side a bit is more or less the same as un-tightening the left side a bit. This is less the case for X, since you have two carriages which are not connected but still here you have some dependencies which may seem huge.
Portolasas
Portolasasโ€ข2mo ago
5. For The Y peaks I aimed for at least 5000 mm/s^2 accelaration and got after many rounds of fine adjusting these graphs:
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
damn, those look fine what ballpark frequency did you tune those to? also, what tips did you learn along the way for tuning y?
Portolasas
Portolasasโ€ข2mo ago
They ain't perfectly pretty, but after the testing I have done its totally okay to have two peaks since it seems like the other carriage at the end of the axis always introduces its own frequency. The 100HZ+ range of frequencies are unavoidable. In many graphs they are just seemingly very small pecause the peak is at 1e6. Tightening together part of the wire looms and the PTFE tubes helped a lot with those frequencies.
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
Thanks @Portolasas its also not my first printer to build but this hybrid system is in my opinion way more diffucult than standard corxy. I will try to handle me through your guid there.
Portolasas
Portolasasโ€ข2mo ago
6. For tightening I would suggest the following method: Start loose - tighten X with belt tension graphs so that they are as best aligned as possible - Generate shaper graphs and slowly tighten Y at both side simultaneously - When you get better results switch to X and slowly adjust one side at a time - Then back to Y. Aim for an accelarion you want to reach and be happy when you get there. Don't want more and more. NEVER adjust X and Y at the same time, this introduces so many things you can't foresee. I always did a M84 followed by a homing after tightening, because by tightening the belts you may introduce a gantry twist and thereby "wrong shaper graphs which aren't the same after a restart. Also, there are definetly local maxima of accelaration. So if, for example, you tighten X and the results get worse and you loosen X afterwards and they also get worse you might be at such a local maxima. I suc a case I always switched to the other axis so in this example to Y and continued there.
Portolasas
Portolasasโ€ข2mo ago
Here are my tension graphs:
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Portolasas
Portolasasโ€ข2mo ago
You can clearly see the two Y-peaks and the more or less one x-peak. As mentioned, don't focus on the 100+Hz Y frequencies to much. An exception is if they get to similar amplitude as the main peaks. Then you have a twist, are to tight or to loose. And even though I got to MZV for the Y-axes and I would say that this is a generally good indication of a good tune, EI or Two-Hump EI or sometimes Three-Hump EI, was what I had most of the time. You should watch a general input shaper explanation beforehand to understand what those regression methods mean and where they differ. Accelleration is, of course, important but so are little vibration and smoothing. So keep that in mind. So I hope that helps you guys a bit and everyone that comes after. In total I needed about 30 measurements before I got this results. But ideally you should need less, since I played around quite a bit to get a better understanding of the interactions of the behaviors of the printer. In the beginning you can also make bigger adjustments e.g. quarter (or sometimes half revolutions), until you get in the range where the graphs look good. But I suggest you move slow so you don't miss the turn ๐Ÿ˜‰ @VisualTech48 @Helge Keck Feel free to check the info i have given, maybe some conclusions where utterly wrong, so I can clarify them. Maybe we can also put the thread in the Idex channel for better visibility - if it helps of course.
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
This is my actual effort
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Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
i tried to bring x and y peak together but I since one will get to loose and the other to stiff it seems not to be possible
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
@Anrot You might have other issue if your graphgs are as wild as I see this. You are all over the palce saddly, my best suggestion would to really make sure everything is TIGHT, and by tight i Dont mean the belts I mean the actually printer. I didn't have this extreme noise I think even with my 3.1. Toolhead has to be top notch Zipeties, not too much strain for the umbilical Making sure its all snug, and no bolt is vibratiing on the toolhead. Making sure that the EBB is really mounted firmly. That your path of the Y is correct, and that the belts don't dance Y belts are the same lenght That the Y joiner is tight enough and that the x gantry is not racking.
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
Thx @VisualTech48, but I tried all those tips already and cant find anything loose. I tried the built in analysis tool to find the source of the resonaces but again no finding. I'm out of Ideas.
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
Did you check if you are racking?
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
y moves also freely
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข2mo ago
take pics of all the joints
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2mo ago
Moving freely, but are the distances from thje motor plates the same left and right?
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข2mo ago
yes they are the same also the frame is square and the rails a paralell
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข5w ago
@Portolasas where your belts equal or did you have to adjust by a tooth or two? @VisualTech48 hi, seeing as you machine is dialed in. Could we see all your graphs? for reference purposes, just to see what we should aim for
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข5w ago
@D00M-_ What I had 1-2 month ago:
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VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข5w ago
But I change my machine a lot I think this was a test with the Dual Rail if I'm not mistaken Basicly you want clean peaks, But even my graphs are not the cleanest. But you should not really go for the cleanest graph but rather best print quality. The idex is complicated really it is, you can, and should always when you get okey graphs actually run the thing, and run perhap a Input Shaper test print. Too see if it actually causes issues.
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข5w ago
good stuff thank you. Is this a 500?
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข5w ago
400 The lower HZ is due to again my heavy gantry at the time. I run around 55 if I'm not mistaken
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข5w ago
alright, more work to be done then ๐Ÿ˜„
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข5w ago
Yeah saddly idex is complicated, and a far higher curve to do proper. You'll get there with patiance. Ask Helge how much time I spent on mine at first.
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข5w ago
ive followed ur comment stream so i know it took months ๐Ÿ˜› @Anrot do u have a top panel on you machines?
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข5w ago
not yet, just the backplate
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข5w ago
add a top to it it compresses the loom and reduces some of the vibrations
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข5w ago
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข5w ago
without top and with top no change to the belts i have to add that my top dosent use magnets but is bolted on
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข5w ago
Re run it a few times see whats what, but again, when you get okey graphs Run them actually. With a test if need be And see if its causing any troubles. Well it is an uphill battle saddly. Again, change someting and then try again. Your 75+ basicly means somethingt again on the toolhead or the umbiiclal etc could be loose.
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข5w ago
i sent the wrong graph that was without top
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข5w ago
this is with
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข5w ago
im going to try to tune the peak lower a bit be at 50
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข5w ago
If you are on 400 @D00M-_ default I think you can get 55 easily. Let me check.
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข5w ago
im on 500
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข5w ago
I see, well these were among my "first" stock IDEX graphs:
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข5w ago
what upgrades did you do?
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข5w ago
Nothing that is needed, different hotend (Rapido ACE), Titanium Gantry, 5160s, custom top electronics bay, and custom Y belt holder.
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข5w ago
I'm getting closer, very slowly but closer. I struggle to bring x and y resonacne toghether. Has anyone played with the belt lenght to change the frequency? Normally I have to make Y longer to lower the frequency, maybe I shift it for a few tooths.
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข5w ago
did u but the top on?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข5w ago
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Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข5w ago
No, I dissasembled parts of the printers again and tuned belts again. Top is not attached yet. Yours seem to look way better what die you do?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข5w ago
added the top on, hotglued some wiggely connectors on the toolheads, and started tunning from very loose belts
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข4w ago
Strange thing is no matter what i try those two peaks won't come toghether
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
What did you do to get it smoothed out?
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข4w ago
I did what you told me ๐Ÿ˜…
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
dude, 8000 on y is great take the win go drink a beer over night my graphs broke @VisualTech48 any idea what this indicates?
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข4w ago
Well belts streach initially. You basicly gotta brake down the belts a bit And the temeprature affects it as well keep in mind
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
uff
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
@VisualTech48 i need some adivce. Ive hit a roadblock. X is good but my y is having issues. nothing i do gets the right belt to come up
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
tried everything but i dont understand why its not moving ive tighted 1/8 at a time and got a a full revolution and its the same graph
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
and x stays racked and pretty
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VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข4w ago
Don't look at this. The Y belt graph is not really that important. You want the IS graphs This is important,
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
then i got them to align and both peaks where sexy i got good is but noted im running now to see whats up
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข4w ago
X is important that the belt graphs match But you want it not racking and if that is the case, run a IS graph
spacebaby0695
spacebaby0695โ€ข4w ago
I'm guessing this is a 300 or 400mm build. I had awesome graphs with the Hybrid on my 500. IDEX is giving me a fit One thing that helped me tune the Hybrid was the excite axes feature in Shake-tune. You set the frequecy to where your problem is and you usally can hear it. I would then touch each belt to see wich was giving me problems. The realtime analyst in Rat OS pulses a little differenty. I can't hear it as well but sometimes I can see which belt is vibrating. Still wrapping my head around IDEX because it's not really a core xy anymore. Just x t0 and x t1 with a cartesian Y
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
he has a 400 anrot, portolasas and i have a 500 hybrid knowledge dosnt translate
spacebaby0695
spacebaby0695โ€ข4w ago
I think this might have been mentioned but for me as soon as I put the lid on my problems went away. I think the way the umbilical cords are joined in the back they amplify one another. On the 500 the cords are pushed down by the lid dampening them. My graphs looked like your all's and I was ready to give up for the day when I did one last test with the lids. This is just my first day messing with it. I was mentioning the hybrid because it was tricky and the same techniques of listening to and watching the belts at the right frequency apply. At least on mine
Unorthad0x
Unorthad0xโ€ข4w ago
Im having a heck of a time getting a good graph/ above 4k on y. Are you guys running 500s? If so mind sharing your toolhead to joiner X and tensioner to y block frequencies? Ive had the toolheads both apart and the joiners making sure everything was tight and square and still struggling
Unorthad0x
Unorthad0xโ€ข4w ago
85hz Toolhead to Joiner, 95hz tensioner to hybrid y block
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
Yeah we have 500s Your y is too tight dont use frequencies for this. They will confuse you use this method when tightening - https://discord.com/channels/582187371529764864/1296131270920900720/1296847960939958353 if u need a starting point for belt tension
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
Printables.com
Belt Tension Gauge by Tom Anderson (The Real NEO) | Download free S...
Here is a belt Tension gauge for 5 mm and 6mm wide belts. I have Included the Fusion360 files for adjustments. | Download free 3D printable STL models
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
start at low and work your way up use the belt tension graph only for x get those to match then go do y with IS
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข4w ago
My problem was that those freqencies are too tight on my machine. I have also a 500
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
this is a different one starts really low i also used the one u posted at the begining and it was so conffusing
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข4w ago
no i mean 85 Hz and 95Hz
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
yea tunning to the 2nd marker on y gave me MZV right from the start on Y
Anrot
AnrotOPโ€ข4w ago
ah good to know. It would be great if Ratrig would malke such a tool for us poor mortal souls to have a good starting point
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Hello everybody ๐Ÿ˜ I have the same problem Updated to hybrid and idex and now it looks like this
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
too tight all of it is too tight read the whole thread from the top
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Oh okay hmm how much hz do you recommend (have also a 500) ? I set it up on 85 and the hybrid on 95 (Used a trummeter like this https://amzn.eu/d/bApebVd)
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Ah okay but why ? I thought the belts must have a specific Tension
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
two toolheads vs one everything here is completly diffierent then hybrid/normal
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Ah okay itโ€™s my first Idex donโ€™t know this is a difference But this is only for 6mm Make this a difference?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
look in the files there is a 9
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
I only see 6 and 5 sorry if I am dumb ๐Ÿ˜‚ but canโ€™t see a 9mm version
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
no, im dumb put the wrong linkl
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Ah okay haha thank you will print it now
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
start at the second tick from the bottom then look at the video also and follow that when tightening https://discord.com/channels/582187371529764864/1296131270920900720/1296847960939958353
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Okay where do I have to put this on ? And where should the head be
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
dosnt matter aim for the middle its only to get u started after you get the relativly tensioned, stop using it and focus on the graphs belt tension for x and is for y dont look at belt tension for y or u will be chasing ghosts this will take hours so get ready to go nuts and if u finish and ur happy but u bump the gantry in the back or front it will screw up the tension and u have to do it again
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Very nice sounds like fun ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿคฎ
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
tunning idex is like being 16 and trying to find the g spot XD
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Hahaha Shit ๐Ÿ˜‚
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Without doing anything I am in the middle so I have to go down or ?
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
second tick start there
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Ah ๐Ÿ˜‚ yes Forgot I have hybrid This is Moore low
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
the higher u go in tensions the more ur graphs look like they have ADD
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Okay good to know ๐Ÿ˜
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
do them all like that then do x tension graph and then adjust to get them equal
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
They are all like this
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
r u belts equal? to the tooth?
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Puh donโ€™t know for shure
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
if they are not u will have a bad day
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
I thought only the tension is important ๐Ÿ˜‚
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
think about this
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Okay okay ๐Ÿ˜‚
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
and even then if they are equal, u still might need to play with letting one tooth go or pulling on best way is to messure teeth left out of the extruders for y u need to compare them
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
You mean here ?
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
other side
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
This one
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
yes count the teeth make sure they are equal
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Okay should be equal
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
when u cut y, where they equal?
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Yes Make 1 tooth a difference?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
yes especially on x
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
I donโ€™t know if the belts are 100% same length on x Cut it 8 weeks ago
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
if i where u id check or u will be chasing ghosts
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
So loosen the belts take it off and look at it Or ๐Ÿ˜ฅ
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
take them off tape them on the floor and see if they are equal
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Okay
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
then do the tooth messuring thing for x and for y also tie ur ubilicals together half way to the toolheads starting from the back tie the ptfe tube also
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
What do you mean ?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
This is how I have it now
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
tie them together about half way to the toolheads make sure they can still move also when doing any sort of test, put the lid on
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Had 3 tooth Moore on one belt
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
make them equal
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Did it Now back in
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
same for y too
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
So after doing this for all belts
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
And the inputshaper graphs are generated right now
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
dont do y tensions graph\
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
I only click on the generate belt graphs
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
this looks like its either too tight or something is loose click the arrow and select just x
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Ah nice donโ€™t saw this till now
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
also do 1/4 on both x and go tension graph again there is no point in doing IS if ur x is not equal focus just on that
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
What do you mean Okay
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
turn 1/4 turn on both x tighten them
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Ah okay
XHeli
XHeliโ€ข4w ago
i never saw such flat blue line O_O
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
blue line is too tight u should be doing 1/8 turns at a time then u will see the line either go up or down there is a threshold tightness where it just disapears and looks like this
XHeli
XHeliโ€ข4w ago
I tried a couple of thightness levels from very low to thight and literly nothing changed :/ But i can try again a far less tighness
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
do 1/4 back on blue then u reach the maximum u will know, then just take off the yellow all ur asjustment should be 1/8 turns at a time
XHeli
XHeliโ€ข4w ago
thanks, i try it
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Good morning @D00M-_ No matter what I do if I loosen or thighten the belts I donโ€™t get it really better I already checked the screws and everything twice
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
where is the yellow belt?
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
I only did the t1 head because the t0 head looks at first okay or โ€žbetterโ€œ Give me a second will make both heads
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
do 1/8 turn losening on the blue line also, have you done realtime analysis ?
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
No not now
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
vibrate the printer and see if anything is loose?
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
How do you mean ?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
enter real time anaysis go and start it and then go to the other tab and choose frequency and mode
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
looks too tight or something is loose
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Where is frequency ? Donโ€™t find it at the real time
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
This one
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
tools
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
And now ?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
go and start it
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Yes But what should I do it with this now
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
i would show u pictures but mine is dead =)) dosnt want to open
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
No description
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
ill type what u want to do is have t0 in the middle start the real time anaylsis then go to tools select x and move the slider slowly up like 5 hz ever 5 seconds and then listen to the printer and hear if anything is ratteling if there is ratteling, find it with ur finger. Touch parts of it until it stops then do this again by selecting y and the x+y and then x-y then to it all again with t1 have fun=))
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Ah okay thank you
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Now I tested and donโ€™t find any loose things Then I loosen the belts to the minimum of the scale (from your print file yesterday) and this came out
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
nice
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Then thighten a Little Bit more and This
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Is this good ?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
go back to this then untighten yellow by 1/8 turn
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Okay
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
So this is what I got now What is your opinion?
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
And this is the is
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
do more tunning also y is too tight
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
No description
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Is this now good ?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
get the peaks to be the same height
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
And why do we have only one Rash I thought we need two
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
rash?
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Peeks Or what is the name for
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
idex needs both to be equal
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
No description
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
the fact that each toolhead is independant needs this if they are not equal then u do vaoc there will be error s
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Ah okay so if I have one toolhead I need two and with Idex I need one or ?
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
For example this is what I need for one head
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
thats when u have two belts for one head here u have one belt one head
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Ahhh
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
u should get only one peak
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Okay Thank you
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
and they have to be perfectly overlaped 1/2% dif max
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Okay ๐Ÿ‘
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
until u have that done, there is no point in doing IS for y also, after every motification to tension m84 then home you should also check gantry squareness by moving toolheads to center and all the way back
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Ah okay this is what I donโ€™t do What does m84
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
turns off steppers
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Ah okay Without the belts it was perfect Will check if the graph looks good
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
is it not perfect now?
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Donโ€™t looked again since then
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
look now no point in moving forward if its not square
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Itโ€™s not 100% perfect but if I loose the belts then it is
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
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Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
wow, your belts are fucked
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
What do you mean
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
hes fucking with you
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
And what is the problem here is?
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
dont you see that? they are broken
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Where ?
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
i dont see it either, are you refering to the color take a close up of the blocks
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
ohhh, its the y belt block, LMAO
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Yes ๐Ÿ˜
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
@03Julian04 loosen all ur belts. Do the tensioner trick on just one of the x belts and then get the gantery square by tighening the opposite belt. As you tighten it the tension in the belt with the tension meter will decrease. dont do y until u have x square follow the video for positioning the toolheads after u tighen a bit move the gantery back and forth the get the belts to stabilize do this until u get the joiners to stay flush with the motor mounts then do y belts to minimum tension
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Okay also without the belts it is not aligned
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
then u have to get it square u tightented to much and got it out of square loosen the joiners and get it perfect
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Yes Will do it
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
@Cruz for idex comisioning guide, this is the best place to get inspired on steps:D
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
What do you think do I have to do if the blue is too low ? Thighten or loosen the belt or could it be both ?
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
have you reached the threshold of x? if u do another 1/8 turn tight on blue dose it go up or down ?
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Yes bevor i thoghten the belts it was perfectly aligned on the back
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
not what i asked
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Okay what do you ask for ?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
. .
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
If I thighten the left one 1/4
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
This came out but the problem is that if I put the x back then the left side is too far away so normally the right side have to be thighter What do you think
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
i think you should have 2 peaks and not jsut one there is something wrong most likely binding belts somewhere
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
On idex too ?
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
you cant fix that with belt tension ohh this is IDEX
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Yes
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
then the belt tension graph is useless anyway it only tells you if you have vibrations or not
Unorthad0x
Unorthad0xโ€ข4w ago
Even for x?
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Okay then what should i look at
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
the belt tension grpah helps you to equalize the corexy belts
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
How much tension ?
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
more improtant is the input shaper graph
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
And at what do I have to look there ?
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
but your orange line tells you that you suffer from some vibraitons
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
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Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
its minor though you need to make sure that your tension still provides a square gantry this is key also, the y belts affect this graph as well thats why input shaper is more improtant for a idex
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
And how much tension
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
if you ahve too much tension on the idex your input shaper grpahs are fucked
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
Without equal tension on x, all my is graphs where shit As soon as i had equal x i had mzv on is for x Then it was easy to do y
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
this isnt necessarily the tensionm these graphs do not tell you anything about the needed tension, these belts are not connected to the same hotend
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
Tried this and vaoc was shit. When i fixed it it worked My way worked for me
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
of course you need similar tension on both toolheads, i jsut say this graph doesnt necessarily tells you the right tension input shapoer graphs are more reliable for idex
Unorthad0x
Unorthad0xโ€ข4w ago
What was your process for getting belts tuned well? I'm ashamed to admit this but I've got 12+ hours tweaking and running graphs trying to get a good result. My best shaper was 8k x and 4k y. I wrote down the tensions I was at and tweaked more trying to get better thinking I could readjust to those tensions and get that result back if needed. Now I can't even get back there
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
make sure all belts have the exact same length, make sure the are identical inserted in all belt blocks on y and the toolheads, make sure the front belt tensioner are equal and then make sure the gantry is square then tune T0 and then T1 then Y make small adjustments to tune all of them there is a relationship between Y and X/DC, if there are disharmonies you get shitty grpahs takea about 15 mintues to get ok input shaper graphs assuming you do not suffer from vrbations
Unorthad0x
Unorthad0xโ€ข4w ago
Guess I'm pulling belts and counting teeth - everything is square and I've had tool head, joiners, and stacks apart to rebuild and check I assumed tensioners could make up for any length difference
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
what oyu see here is a completely vibration free graph for a idex
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Wow 11600 acc
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
thats an old graph from my VC3.1 IDEX with the VC4 300 you can reach about 15k if its perfectly tuned but mainstream 10k is the goal
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
And the 500
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
i have no experience with a 500 IDEX idk but i assume you should be able to get 5 or 6 k
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Okay I will see where I get I am doing right now the is will see where I am
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
i short, get rid of any vibration, make sure y and x/dx belts are harmonized
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
So do you think this is good for x
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Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
try it
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
What can the problem be if y is rubbish ?
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Like this
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Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
make small adjsutments on y, repeat is grpah, and repeat repeat repeat
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Can it only be the belts from the hybrid ? Or can it also be the belts from the heads ?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
Looks too tight Once u finish with x, go do y, then come back to x as changes on y might impact x
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Now I think I got it
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Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
its a start now do one with copy and mirror mode and you will see some magic
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
How do I do this ?
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
1. home printer 2. enable copy mode 4. run input shaper
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Ah okay Can I also use copy mode like this ? Or do I have to activate it in the slicer too ?
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
thats how you do it the slicer doesnt care about it
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
So I slice one object and then activate copy mode and the printer copy it ? And where do I have to place the model on the plate ?
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
you jsut print as usual but you enable copy mode before
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Do I have to think the middle
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
the printer or the slcier do nto really copy the object the printer doesnt even know that you use copy mode you place a object i the middle of the plate and print
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Ah okay and how big can it be ? 250mm wide ?
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
copy mode half the build plate, mirror mode less
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Okay thank you
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
but i HIGHLY recommend to not use copy or mirror mode yet you should print first successfully soem prints at least if everything works reliable then you can do that
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
@Helge Keck on his y1 graph, ive seen the exact same double peak on a lot of graphs including my own. What causes this? Any idea
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
disharmonic x and y belt there are 3 indivudual belts that need to work together if they dont you get these graphs
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
so u still need more tunning then to get it right dose printer size make it harder?
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
not really
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
looking forward when yall gonna add belt tennsion sensors and automate all this Adaptive Belt Tensioning:D
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
keep dreaming, do something for your money
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
This is with copy mode enabled
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
without dreamers there would be nothing cool on this earth:D And i do, i make concrete crap and lamps:P u have a bit of vibration in ur umbilical is it resonating against the top?
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
No this was with no top on it
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
add it will improve the graphs
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Okay will test this later @D00M-_ @Helge Keck how is this possible I only change the place of the printer
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
my guess is you twisted the frame and it applied pressure on the belts or your floor is uneaven and its twisting the frame
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Oh men this thing is making me crazy @D00M-_ Which value do I write in the config ? The lowest of every one or do I write every value ?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
yeah the lowest for single each value for copy and mirror the lowest
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Can you send a foto of your config so I know how to write it
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
im not home atm there is a section in printer.cfg at the top in the macro section where you fill in the blanks
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Here ?
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข4w ago
no, for a idex remove that section add thsi instead
[gcode_macro RatOS]
variable_shaper_x_freq: [66.6, 65.2, 61.5, 68.1] # toolheads shaper frequency [T0, T1, COPY, MIRROR]
variable_shaper_y_freq: [70.0, 68.8, 67.3, 66.7] # toolheads shaper frequency [T0, T1, COPY, MIRROR]
variable_shaper_x_type: ["mzv", "mzv", "mzv", "mzv"] # toolheads shaper frequency algorythm [T0, T1, COPY, MIRROR]
variable_shaper_y_type: ["mzv", "mzv", "mzv", "mzv"] # toolheads shaper frequency algorythm [T0, T1, COPY, MIRROR]
[gcode_macro RatOS]
variable_shaper_x_freq: [66.6, 65.2, 61.5, 68.1] # toolheads shaper frequency [T0, T1, COPY, MIRROR]
variable_shaper_y_freq: [70.0, 68.8, 67.3, 66.7] # toolheads shaper frequency [T0, T1, COPY, MIRROR]
variable_shaper_x_type: ["mzv", "mzv", "mzv", "mzv"] # toolheads shaper frequency algorythm [T0, T1, COPY, MIRROR]
variable_shaper_y_type: ["mzv", "mzv", "mzv", "mzv"] # toolheads shaper frequency algorythm [T0, T1, COPY, MIRROR]
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Ah Okay thank you
XHeli
XHeliโ€ข4w ago
hello again and good morning (if the timezone fits;). I have a issue, and im a little bit confused: Wether i measure X or Y Axsis, every time the PSD is far lower on the left side (100 Times lower, i.e. 60.000 instead of 2.000.000) i tried every tension from extremly low to like an iron rod. In the best case i reached 80.000. The right side is a poc to adjust for x and y axis
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
pics or it didnt happen ๐Ÿ™‚
XHeli
XHeliโ€ข4w ago
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XHeli
XHeliโ€ข4w ago
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XHeli
XHeliโ€ข4w ago
right and left x-tension is almost the same and gantry perfectly aligned all idler pulleys controlled, belt always in the middle of pulleys hand-movement feels very smooth maybe tool-board damaged ?
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข4w ago
Dont look at Y tensions grahps But your X is fucked ๐Ÿ˜„ What is the size of the printer? You could overtensioned it. Thus lkoosing one of the amplitudes. In you rcase the T0 toolhead
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข4w ago
less is more @XHeli if its a 500 then ur way over tensioned
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข4w ago
Yes I can agree haha it looks like waaay too lose but that was perfect
XHeli
XHeliโ€ข4w ago
I tested all beetween so looose, that the belt is wobbeling and so tight that the belt is like an iron rod, no point in the way of the two point leads to more then 80.000 (i did approx 40 Steps from loose to tight). On T1 all no problem, just a T0 issue (on X and Y axis the same missbehavior) Its a 400 machine
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
I'm quite a noob with resonances, especially with this idex setup. What would be the best way to tackle a graph looking like this? I see some vibrations after the main peak? Is there any way to "easily" fine the cause of them?
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Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
with a bit more tensioning I got it to mvz at least - but I'm unsure if I should be looking for the vibrations or not
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
Give it a bit more tenssion Aim for above 6k acel
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
above 6k for mzv - switching to zv is good or bad?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
ZV isnt good for our printers
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
got it - then I went too far xD
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
mzv across the board aim for above 6k ur at 41hz now in the graph go around from 44 and up and see where it looks good 1/8 turn at a time
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
right now im back at mzv with 44.2 hz but only 5.8k accel, ill make smaller turns from now lets see
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Hello if you guys are here I have a question too I donโ€™t get mzv on my toolhead 0 on y It is the same hz measured on the belt like on the t1 y belt but t1 is mzv and t0 is Ei
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
too tight
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
I have 14hz on it
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
Where exactly do you see if it's too tight or too lose? just because of the frequency of the main spike? but I'm a bit jealous about your upper frequencies
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Yes what can this cause ?
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
yours look fine, I have some spikes on them:
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
This is with extreeemly loosen belts
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
i look at the peak and where it is relative to the graph these are mine
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
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Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
you have a 500 too right?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
yes
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
I think I have to tackle at least the spike on 80 hz on t1
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
could be some wires or bolt that is loose
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
It is very very low but same result
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
go lower see what happenes
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Yes i test it but till now nothing changed
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
are u square?
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Yes
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
if you re loosening it, it should move left try some more
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
What do you mean ? The graph ?
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
This is now
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
go even more
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Then the belt is hanging off Then it is soo loose that I canโ€™t even measure my hz with my trummeter At what point do you have your belts tighten ? (On the belt tension gauge)
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
they are not equal each has its own tension i abandonded the tension graph and the tension meter and just used is
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
yeah same here - i didn't get them to match at all and read that it doesn't even mean they are at the same tension so input shaper it is
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
how can my T1 y graph be that shitty when T0 y is "fine"?
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
try a bit more tension
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
This is with more tighten belt why or what is the reason for the 125 hz do you know possible things ?
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
Thats the umbilical
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Is it possible that the other belts are false and this is shown only on this belt ? I get on every other belt mzv But can it be possible that if I thighten all belts that maybe the one also get mzv Or how can I improve ?
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
This is now With very loosen belts @chicken hello again ๐Ÿ˜ I saw you helped another guy with the belts or is maybe you have an idea what I can do ?
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
Has anyone an idea what could cause a very small x belt movement on the right idex belt when moving the Y axis (even without belts) It's only a very small movement but I can't find the cause of it
chicken
chickenโ€ข3w ago
Julian I have not done idex yet so have no idea what to even look for yet. I have been traveling a lot for work and just got most of the parts I needed to do idex. Waiting on some replacement rapido parts as I broke my existing hot end in a crash with a wrapped print. Hopefully have time Thanksgiving week to do the upgrades I have planned and then install idex.
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Ah okay thanks for the answer ๐Ÿ˜Š
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Do you know why the x is so much lower ? (On t1 y) X IS is on t1 and t0 MZV
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Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
finally getting somewhere
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Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
No matter what I do - ive restarted the y tensioning like 5 times - the graphs won't get better, sometimes I get mvz but only with like 3.5k acceleration - any ideas?
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
How strong is it thightened ?
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
it doesn't look too different - very loose to very tight the graph is as ugly as this
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
This is way more tightened but still not looking good
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
How strong is it thightened ? On y is less more I have mine very very loose
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
I mean - I can start again while the one side (not the one fixated in the block) is hanging through - right now I was testing my theory "more is more" :KEKW:
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
My "loose" was too tight - thank you very much now I can start tuning them correctly
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Nice And another thing is after I had mvz on every belt and ever Modus, 2 hours later it was Ei on two belts again so I think we have to checkt it multiple times with some time between to make sure its perfect
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
Oh thanks for the info - will do - i will try to get them as wanted today and will recheck tomorrow morning
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Give me feedback if only my machine is dumb or it is normal ๐Ÿ˜‚
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
I hope for you it's "normal" :KEKW:
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Haha yes I hope too but in physics it makes sense that after a time the belt loosen a little bit or goes in his shape and then we have to recheck ๐Ÿคท๐Ÿฝโ€โ™‚๏ธ
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
yeah would make sense - i've never seen such loose y belts to be honest - no wonder I never tried them that loose
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
@03Julian04 sorry for tagging you - but what's the procedure if one toolhead looks bad while the other is "okay" it's not like the x axis where one belt correlates to one toolhead i guess?
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Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
and btw: have you ever figured out where your peak at 125hz came from? seeing a similar peak here
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
No donโ€™t find it Only change a little bit on the other if you do too much you also have to correct the other one
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
easier said then done - I'm struggling with inconsistent y graphs - running IS two times results in 4 different graphs
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Exactly my problem
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
okay that sucks xD
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
I have done everything perfect 1 hour later 2 belts are for the rubbish
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
2 hours later? i get different graphs if i run the is again without a pause at all
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Oh yes extremely ๐Ÿ˜‚ Slowly I believe that this is a never ending story Okay thenโ€ฆ after change the belts do you put the x axis back and forth multiple times ?
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
but others have done it already so there must be a way xD
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Or do you run is directly after change Hahaha or they donโ€™t measure twice if its okay ๐Ÿ˜‚
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
yes - but right now no - If i don't do anything I expect the same graph no matter how much I run the is - I even went to a different room just to be sure :KEKW:
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
I had the same problem maybe we have to move it Moore before start a new is
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
but i'm running a marathon with it already :cryrunning:
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Hmm do you tightened the little mini screw at the belt tensioner
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
yes everytime this printer is lucky that it doesn't fit through my balcony door, otherwise it would have seen the garden by now :KEKW:
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Ohhh yes ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚ I thought this multiple times ๐Ÿ˜‚
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
right now i'm completely ignoring T1 - i'm focusing on T0 and see how the graph changes if I do different things - maybe I then understand the issue better
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Okay let me know if you understand anything ๐Ÿ˜‚
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
will do xD
Randomher0
Randomher0โ€ข3w ago
I was looking forward to getting my IDEX-kit, now I'm experiencing something new..... Pre-PTSD
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Pre-PTSD ? Pre traumatic stress disorder ?๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚
Randomher0
Randomher0โ€ข3w ago
Yeah, with the level of complexity this seems to have, I'm now dreading getting this thing calibrated
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
the y belts are just magic
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
No worries you are absolutely right This is a shot haha I donโ€™t know how often I thinking off to go back to hybrid ๐Ÿ˜‚ If it is working I love it But till then you will need muuuuuch beer or something to smoke ๐Ÿ˜‚
Randomher0
Randomher0โ€ข3w ago
Sounds like a hoot... I thought this machine would be a fun challenging exercise, now I realize I'm severely under qualified for this.
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Ah itโ€™s learning by doing so nobody is under qualified if you really wants this ๐Ÿ˜
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
why am i feeling under qualified tho? I'm sitting here for 12 hours now trying to get the y belts to mvz :KEKW:
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Ah that is nothing I tried it now for one week ๐Ÿ˜‚
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
oh fuck me
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
๐Ÿ˜‚
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข3w ago
... and here i am, stuck in commissioning since sunday and not even close to doing belttensioning... :kekw: i've read the whole saga... ohhh boy
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Haha I wish you much fun
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข3w ago
well you'll see me in #imverysmart again then... should have made a picture of the bs i did yesterday. but i guess before i do anything else, including further beacon calibration and VAOC i better get my belts sorted.
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
At the moment it looks good
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
man - want to trade printers?
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Have you printed the belt tensioner ? Sorry tension gauge
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
No - maybe I should
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Yes this helps very much to set both belts at the same tension
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
let me dust off my ender 5 plus really quick :KEKW:
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ‘
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Mirror looks good too I hope it will stay like this
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
it wount XD
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿคฎ๐Ÿคฎ๐Ÿคฎ
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
after about a month of printing and heat cycles it will change and u have to do it again
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Every month again ? Nice will love this โ€ฆ. Really not ๐Ÿ˜‚
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
do you mind sending a pic of the usage of the tension gauge you just sent? I'm curious how loose your loose really is :KEKW:
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
nope, just until they find balance
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
Anyone an idea where this second spike can come from?
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Okay, thatโ€™s a bright spot ๐Ÿฅฒ๐Ÿ˜„ No sorry
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
are all your wires secure? any loose connectors?
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
with all wires you mean the ones on the toolhead or everything including the electrical box?
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
toolhead
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
yeah you might be on to something - i'm currently looking for a "rattling" on the toolhead on about 55hz, if i put my finger on it it's gone, so somethings there, just need to find it
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
hot glue is ur friend
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
don't say that, otherwise i will transform my toolhead in one giant hot glue blob :KEKW:
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
it works
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
i mean you're not wrong - but I rather want to know where the noise comes from before gluing everything together xD
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
i did a small blob on the connectors like they do in psus on capacitors
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Look at the voltage supply connector mine was Loose
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
did you just use hotglue for that as well?
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Yes
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
since I can't find anything else that is rattling -> hotglue it is :KEKW:
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Love it after the first print ๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿคฎ
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Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
hot glued everything still same
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03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Please make a photo ๐Ÿ˜ If the hot glue Maybe to tight
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
Not sure how much you can see on here, but it's on the side of every connector, even the endstop
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D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
the fan and beacon wires look like they are dangeling
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
This is how mine is looking Take as much Cable ties as you can
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Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
yeah my lower ties are missing, had to cut them open to get closer with the hot glue gun - but I will clean it up in a bit to see if that helps I really don't think it's the cables tho - I mean I can hear a vibration noise on 57hz with the realtime analysis tool - I just can't find the source - no matter what I touch on the toolhead the rattling stops. At this point I've completely disassembled it and rebuilt it again
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Maybe anything else makes the noice and not the toolhead itself
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
I had my ears next to every part on this printer, the sound definitely comes from the toolhead xD But obviously im not sure if that's really the issue of this spike
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
I really really hate it Everything was good Then first print Okay 1 belt was false A little twist and everything okay again Second print and t1 x is false After change it till its mvz again t1 y is false After change it till its mvz t0 x is false ๐Ÿคฎ
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข3w ago
sounds like your belts are slipping? maybe? had that when i initially tightened my y-belts... tried to tune them to a certain frequency (which is - in hindsight - complete bs, but just as a baseline), turned.. frequency rose.. turned more.. frequency dipped down again. i checked the clamps, and sure, belts slipped slowly out. happened on both sides. guess i didn't put them in fully.
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
I checked them now and they are okay I also printed them out of pa12GF15 because the abs ones are not really good
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข3w ago
oh i just meant that as a example - if you have problems with x, it's the toolhead-clamps maybe. they seem to be problematic often, there are stronger ones out there on printables. the two on the front
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
Ah okay nice Till now the pa12 ones are great
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
I've once again redid the whole toolhead - I think my spike comes from something else xD theres no way I build it shitty 5 times
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
๐Ÿคฃ I think so too
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข3w ago
:kekw: and now onto searching for that needle in the literal haystack...
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
i just looked at it, and is there a chance it's caused by the x belt? at about the 50hz range its vibrating A LOT - so much, that it's clearly visible
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
that normal stop obsesing about it just get it to mzv then forget about it for like a month let the belts stretch
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
but 2.9k is garbage
D00M-_
D00M-_โ€ข3w ago
yes it is :kekw:
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข3w ago
i mean.. i can't leave it like that :KEKW:
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข3w ago
๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข3w ago
well here we go, my initial IS-graphs for a 300 IDEX... i have a feeling that my y somewhat on the right track, maybe a bit less belt tension? but boy is my x-axis waaaay off and all over the place - or somewhere something is horribly loose ๐Ÿ˜‚
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Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข2w ago
I hate you for your y graphs :madge: but your x graph will settle once you have it at the right tension
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
yeah but honestly my y graphs aren't that hot either. if you look at other's graphs around here, there are better ones.
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข2w ago
never looked at the graphs for 300 printers to be honest - from my 500 perspective this would be a dream :KEKW:
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
500 is that tricky to tune?
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข2w ago
Nice but now I know like @Helge Keck said The is graph is not the most important thing on an Idex It is more important that if you make the vaoc that you can get a good result with only 3-4 times of set up the right offset I have mzv on all axis too but I need 50 times of changing till my offset is right and after safe and go back to set up the offset its false again Hell yeah ๐Ÿ˜‚ Do you did the voac already ?
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
i tried but didn't work out, got some offset error, but i believe that was because of my unscrewed nozzles... wanted to get the belts into a general ballpark and then do all the other calibrations (endstops, vaoc, beacon etc.)
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข2w ago
Ah okay ๐Ÿ‘
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
i basically tuned my belts via spectroid with the gantry clamped to the front and toolheads in the middle - more or less locked in place. x-belts in the front around 115-120 Hz i believe, y-belts i did around 100. as i said, with y i could live, but no idea what's wrong on x. could be the umbilicals, could be loose bolts somewhere, could be binding, although i don't notice any significant binding when im ove everything around.
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข2w ago
spectroid and other sound tuning apps are useless for idex belt tensioning
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
and that's why i'm redoing it ๐Ÿ˜„
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข2w ago
interestingly I left my y belts because I couldn't get them to a good value and tried fixing my bowed bed - at the end of the day my y results were on 7k and mvz - sadly I tried to turn my gantry and now I had to start over again :KEKW:
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
sad thing is, i'm working from home right now and could do a few tuning runs, but i can't... we have ground works around the house currently (company digging trenches for fiber optics cables, one crew digs and cuts the sidewalks open, others put the cable tube in and then fill and jackhammer everything again) so EVERYTHING here is constatly rumbling and vibrating and so on and i think that would completely throw off any IS tuning...
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข2w ago
yeah not the best situation for tuning is graphs xD
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
ok so realtime analysis is magical... letting it run for x+y on T0 gives interesting results... above 40 Hz everything seems fine, peaks follow the set frequency. but on the low end below 40, there seem to be problems... around 30 Hz i hear a clear "ticking" noise from T0 i believe, but no idea how to locate that. around 20 Hz the printer seems to "rumble" and i have harmonic peaks in the output, with the 3rd harmonic (around 60 Hz) having the highest peak.
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
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thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
okay the ticking was the orbiter lever :kekw: ok looks like my T0 orbiter is super chatty around 20-40 Hz... everything rattles and ticks.
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข2w ago
with filament in it?
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
nope, empty. i haven't printed a single line with this printer yet. still setting up and tuning.
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข2w ago
I had the same issue, the wheel on the tensioning arm is rattling af - put some filament in it, just far enough, that this wheel touches the filament -> problem solved
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
yep, same. for a moment i thought a bearing is bust or something, but no, it's just that damn lever arm. if i unscrew it and just open it up it gets better. although that doesn't greatly influence the harmonics. but okay, i'll insert a piece of filament in both so they are happy ๐Ÿ˜„
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
hm.. i gave both extruders a piece of filament, no more rattling, but my X still seems noisy... went ahead and lowered the tension on all 4 belts, readjusted the tension with the gantry in the back (roughly same tension, measured the distance between the motor mounts and the rail carriages), it's much more loose now and quieter, but my x-tension-graph is still crap...
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thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
so i've tightened and tuned the x-belts a bit more again, now it looks like this:
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thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
defined peaks around 60 Hz from the belts, for the most part aligned (maybe i'll give the left one a tad more tension), no idea what all the other crap is, especially on the right toolhead. could that come from the umbilicals? loose cables? well maybe it's really just loose cables and stuff, i zip-tied down my loose 4028 wires (first on T0, then on T1) and a few swings in those upper regions (100-130 Hz) are lower. but man if that's the case why these graphs look like this, then i have to plaster both toolheads with zip-ties till nothing's moving there anymore ๐Ÿ˜‚
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
ok that printer is officially confusing me. didn't change anything relating to belt tension, just zip-tied down cables and the reverse-bowden on T0, didn't change anything on T1 (just as a test to see if it makes a difference) - now i get this:
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thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
regarding those graphs, i'd expect them to be flipped... T1 = right, T0 = left - or is it? anyway, generating IS graphs for X now...
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
that's more what i expected to see, still in the 1e3 range though.
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VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2w ago
@thepete89 1e3 is binding. Check your belt path
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
hm, did that, feels clear to me. i honestly can't really "feel" anything binding on x - but y feels a bit sketchy, but also there i don't see anything in the belt path blocking. idlers move, motor pulleys move. could be the rails then.
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2w ago
You are binding somewhere you could have a racked gantry.
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข2w ago
i wouldn't say that 1e3 is always binding - I had that too while not having the right belt tension
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
okay i did a few quick tests, my left hybrid motor pulley was a bit too low, looks like the belt rubbed there a bit. i made it loose, pushed it up a bit, and locked it again. feels better now moving it by hand, running the next IS. but yeah on X i can't feel anything, mybe it is the belt tension (too loose?)
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
guess it was that damn pulley :kekw: 1e4 - still noisy. but maybe that is belt tension now or other loose stuff.
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thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
@VisualTech48 thanks for reminding me to check my belt paths again...
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2w ago
No worries. @Kyreus of course but in 8/10 it can be attributed to it, just because it's very common indicator of such.
Kyreus
Kyreusโ€ข2w ago
interesting, didn't know that
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
also didn't know that, but again learned something. with the tension the belts have right now i thought i should easily reach 1e4 territory, that's why i wondered and strapped everything around the toolheads down with zip-ties. that the y-axis has still so much influence on IDEX didn't come to my mind, but here we are. now i'll play with belt tension a bit and look if i maybe find more things that need a zip tie. also can't quite understand that first "hump" in both graphs around 40 Hz - or does this come from the y-belts? the peak around 60 - easy. x-belts. rest? noise from umbilical, flapping cables and crap ๐Ÿ˜‚
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
erhm... i guess it's too tight now? ๐Ÿ˜‚
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thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
ok last try for today, as i couldn't get anything good trying around just with the x belts, i loosened all the belts and started over. this time with both Ys almost loose (just enough tension so that they don't slip) and X/toolhead-belts with minimal tension. now it's like this.. back in 1e3 terretory, but i guess this time it's not because of binding, but because the belts are too loose. still wondering what all that crap between 50 and 135 is, especially on T1. just wanted to make sure that Y isn't bodging my X results, i assume it was. also tuning IDEX is just a nightmare with tensioning/loosening belts, running a shaper and hoping the graphs come out ok ๐Ÿ˜‚
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thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
hm.. looking at my graphs from yesterday again after i watched the issue identification part of "How to Read and Analyze Input Shaper Graphs generated by Klipper" again there are only two possible problems: either wireloom doing stuff or a mechanical issue (broken idler was the example) - how would you find a broken idler? when i move the printer by hand i can't feel anything, there are no strange (for my expectations) noises etc.
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
hm.. ok the relation between hybrid-y and x/dc is interesting... i did what i said, realigend/checked the rails, then finally caved and printed me a belt-tension-gauge-thingy. with all 4 belts at the same tension (2nd marking from LOW) i get this:
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thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
if i lower the tension on the hybrid-belts (to the first marking), i get this:
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thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
notice that the first peak gets lower/disappears and the power spectral density flips between toolhead-sensors. so i would think that again it is binding somewhere, but it "jumps" between toolheads depending on the y-belt-tension. my guess would be that maybe all belts together introduce a minimal amount of racking, thus binding the gantry, but just from moving and visually inspecting the gantry i can't confirm that for sure - for me everything looks fine.
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
well crap, back to square 1... tighter belts, same bs as before:
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thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
gantry is squared, i loosened the 8 m3 screws on top of the plates with all belts loose and made sure its properly square. i re-tightened the shoulder bolts holding the idlers, i checked the idlers on the motors, checked all the bolts there etc... at this point i don't know what else i could try. :sadpepe: if nobody @here has another idea, i guess the next step will be to disassemble most of the printer again and check every single mechanical piece from idlers, motorpulleys to the motors to the rails. sucks.
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2w ago
1e3 you are still most likely binding. And my bent atm is on the gantry. Did you push the Gantry back on the motors While keeping both toolheads in the middle? https://discord.com/channels/582187371529764864/1296131270920900720/1296847960939958353
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข2w ago
overtensioned
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2w ago
How far do you think he went if he has this noise on all freq? @Helge Keck @thepete89 The issue is that you go very low tension then go up. Keep always in mind you want the belts in harmony So all 4 belts basicly have to work together. If you f up the y belts it will be very apparent in the graphgs
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
so even if i'm doing x, i also have to tune y? it's not enough to let them loose? and then when i'm done with x, fine-tune y? and yeah that's what i did the whole time, i just have the problem that with T0 the beacon usb cable is in the way sometimes. cable-routing on the toolhead is a bit awkward.
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2w ago
What do you mean? Well too loose or too strong belts you get wierd graph. By loose I mean that it doesn't skip, so tight jsut enough Same belt lenght as well
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
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VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2w ago
I've never seen the cables routed like that, you usually go like a snake. I'll show you mine gime a sec
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2w ago
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VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2w ago
So it goes on the sides.
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
well i took the shortest possible path... but yeah that... makes much more sense. so guess my task for this week is redo my cable routing on both printheads and check the length of all belts... but i fear that my X/DC belts are already a bit too short - when i first set everything up and tensioned the belts the front clamps slipped on both sides. had to fiddle a bit to get enough belt in there to grab onto it. i had already cut it down at this point, but oh well, if i busted my belts i'll order some more. and @Helge Keck @VisualTech48 what big of a margin for tension do i have, for a 300 machine? or is that hard to say?
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2w ago
By margin you mean hz or?
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
yeah or tension in general. how low is too low, how much is too much.
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข2w ago
you start with equal belt tension, ver low, and then you make input shaoer graphs, then tighten them by a 1/8th turn and retune IS, ....... this pattern you have is typical for overtension on a idex jsut a half turn is enough sometimes there is no other way then trial and error its not transmitteable with words here on the chat importat is first to find equal tension with loose tenioned belts, then gradually more tenions in tiny steps
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2w ago
@thepete89 Listen to Helge. Basicly you want equal and harmony on all. Then go bit by bit on the tension Y is EXTREMELY sensitive. Because its far shorter. So Y 1/8 is a must If you do it too much you will f it up and then you gotta restart.
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
and basically slow and steady on all 4 belts whenever i change tension, and IS on Y is then just fine-tuning i guess. fun for weeks ๐Ÿ˜„ but if you both say that it is like this i hope it will eventually play out. tuning an idex is pretty wild.
Helge Keck
Helge Keckโ€ข2w ago
tuning an idex is pretty wild.
this isnt a pony hotel here
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
yeah, thank you @Helge Keck @VisualTech48 - i just hope that there is no hidden mechanical defect. because after what you said i think all that power spectral density stuff for a normal corexy can go out the window too? i always interpreted it like that, the higher the number, the "clearer" the resonances are and the better it is for input shaping. if you can't get a clear signal - well then somethings busted in your mechanics.
VisualTech48
VisualTech48โ€ข2w ago
Its not clear cut on the IDEX. I've seen both good graphs and trash prints and vice versa. You have to just get decent graphs, and then do test print If it sucks you f up somewhere
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
:kekw: so basically IDEX is trail & error all the way i wonder if the realtime analysis could help with a rough tuning of the belts and then do the finetuning with IS
ZIMZ
ZIMZโ€ข2w ago
For me it's been fun. I'm nearly done. I can't wait for the mandala metal toolhead belt holders though.. I'm crying right now b/c I know what you mean. I'm hoping this last shaper graph for T0 will be below 1% and I can go. print
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข2w ago
those are nice. would be so great to have a MRW-reseller here in europe, especially germany. it's not really viable to order anything from mandala because of freight costs, taxes, tariffs etc.. ordering stuff from the US is stupidly expensive right now.
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข6d ago
slowly getting somewhere now... guess anything better than 1e4 is almost impossible to achive, so my main goal rn is "get both x-shapers in the 1e4 ballpark and make them agree on MZV" :kekw:
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thepete89
thepete89โ€ข5d ago
ok this printer is shitting me, now they both dropped down to 1e3 and 2HUMP_EI... aaand i'm starting over tomorrow :stare:
03Julian04
03Julian04โ€ข5d ago
Hahaha I just gave up and just look at the result of the print
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข5d ago
at least knowing that my belts are somewhat equally tensioned would be nice, a proper working IS is just the cherry on top. but like this it's throwing red hering after red hering towards me. i mean i even had the x-gantry out this week because i thought something was wrong. idler-assemblies not properly inserted to the extrusion or something like that. nothing. i pulled both x/dc-belts out to make sure they are both the same length. they are now. i de-racked the gantry a few times, both with belts out and belts in again. it's as square as can be now. i re-tightened all the bolts and screws i could easily acces. i just can't wrap my head around why it won't go over 1e4, and most of the time with only one toolhead, or with completely different shaper algorithms on both toolheads IF they both manage 1e4 with veeeery low tension on all belts - that graph was with what, i believe a little bit over the first marking on that belt tensioning tool you can print? so very very loose, just tight enough that nothing slips off of idlers and pulleys. so from my feeling, too loose. then i went up again and here we are, 1e3 and 2HUMP_EI on both heads... i don't think it's anything mechanical because i checked the idlers when i had the gantry out, they roll smooth. rails - maybe a bit rattling (could be that my lubricant i used is a bit too thick) but not binding or sounding "damaged" (but i must be honest, i never had a damaged rail, so i don't know how that would sound, but i'd imagine it would sound horrible - grinding noises and stuff. i don't have that). and frame-wise, the only thing i did at the very begining was adjust one side a bit with slight taps as my bed mesh showed me a high spot in one corner. that's it.
XHeli
XHeliโ€ข4d ago
i have similar experiences, i dont have a chance to get the left t0-x to more then 500.000, where the t1-x head was something like a poc to get that to over 3.000.000 and with a curve that cant be better, id did hundereds of tension adjustments from flattering low to iron rod like tension and on no point a nearly satisfying curve. the x-mgn rail is a little bit bended in direction of z before installation (maybe this is a reason?) I use linearrail lubricant aswell, that is thicker then oil, but i used that on t1 too. Im clueless. Also also checked als pulleys rebuild the beltholders on toolhead, adjust all perfectly square. All supersmooth, no rattling, just silent
thepete89
thepete89โ€ข4d ago
same. thought maybe my belt on T0 is rubbing/binding somewhere, but that's just when it's super loose - with more tension it runs okay again. no idea what to do. experimented again today, got it at one point where T1 had MZV with 1e3 and a good peak, but broad base, while T0 had two huge peaks, 2HUMP and also 1e3... guess i'll just do it really rough, do the rest of the calibration and then wait for a proper detailed guide on how to do belt tension and IS on idex machines. like this it's too much trial and error for my taste. maybe some guidance on how to do rough tuning/belt tensioning with the realtime analysis tool would be great, as every shaper run takes some time, even if you only do it on x or y alone. there i noticed that T0 has multiple spikes between 10 and 40 Hz shaking frequency, above 40 you just get a single peak on the frequency you are shaking at, so i think maybe there's the reason why my graphs are so bad, but no idea what that could be. holding the umbilical or cables on the printhead or other stuff around the head doesn't seem to influence those peaks.
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