VC4 Idex Belts

Hello, I tried to fasten my belts but no matter what I try I always get a bad result. Best I archived until now is attached. What I tried: https://www.printables.com/model/151815-belt-tensioner-meter-9-mm-petg-prusament Tuning the belts to 85 Hz with the "Realtiem Analysis" and also what is in the commision guide. Is there anything I missed?
Printables.com
Belt tensioner meter 9 mm, PETG Prusament by Locki | Download free ...
For 9 mm belts, print from PETG Prusament like original model | Download free 3D printable STL models
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478 Replies
Anrot
Anrot3w ago
These are the input shapre graphs
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D00M-_
D00M-_3w ago
same boat as you curious to see what people say graphs are similar to urs
VisualTech48
VisualTech483w ago
1e3 usually means binding.
VisualTech48
VisualTech483w ago
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VisualTech48
VisualTech483w ago
Check your belt path. Also you gota lot of noise everywhere.
D00M-_
D00M-_3w ago
so e4 and up is what we should aim for?
VisualTech48
VisualTech483w ago
That or e5, if it's super cleanish.
Anrot
Anrot3w ago
Checked belts several times but it won't be better. I have the feeling that the x axis linear rail feels a bit stiff when belts are thightened to the right amount. I already checkt if it is bent but it seems to be straight.
VisualTech48
VisualTech483w ago
There are some severe mehanical issues if you have these graphs on the X especially. X / DC should be "easy" to get cleaner graphs. If you get this on X as well you have some mehanical stuff as I said. Recheck, triple check everything
Anrot
Anrot3w ago
I checked all bearings also the belt paths and the rails. What else can I do?
VisualTech48
VisualTech483w ago
You are binding somewhere, so either your rails are at the front/back not the same Or something is putting imense stress @Prav Is more a belt tension guy, if he can help.
Anrot
Anrot3w ago
Is there a guide I can follow? Since I dissasambled and reassambled and checked alot of these things I may miss the solution I'm searching for.
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
Now that everything was dissasambled and reassambled again. I have better results but again something seems to be off.
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
how tight are ur bearing stacks?
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
@D00M-_ which ones do you mean?
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
all of them try loosening them a bit and see what changes also, have you tried to vibrate the machine using realtime analysis and see what it sounds like?
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
I will try to loosen them a bit. I tried the realtime analysis yes but I didn't find anything loose or else something off
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
did you got through the axis? x, y, x+y, x-y? what frequency did you tune ur belts to?
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
just tried y because I assumed that that's the one with issues, x belts to 85,4 Hz and the hybrid y belts to 95,5 Hz
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
what did u use to meassure?
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
I tired to find the resonance which creats the peaks
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
did you do this with realtime? where u have the toolhead in the center and you pluck the belt and see what frequency peak comes up? also how do ur meassure belt graphs look
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
loosening the bearing stacks didn't change anything
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
by loosening did you make then have play or are they still secure? i had weird vibrations because i overtightended them
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
they are still secure
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
is the gantery square?
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
yes
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
try tunning the y belts at a lower frequncy
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
Those are the belt graphs
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
y look better then x even tho ur input shaper is the other way around in ur x graph they are not equal tension
Pescados
Pescados2w ago
Random question (throwing rice at the wall): could unequal belt length cause this?
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
dono, i tired to get them equal. Cut them in half then messured the ends of the belts coming out of the grabbers and they are equal im in the same boat as him
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
y is always fucked
Pescados
Pescados2w ago
Hmm, I just finished my toolhead assembly so only have accessories, panels and electronics left to do. Will continue after 14d holiday and will stay engaged here once I can talk with my own belt graphs experience.
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
The lack of guides reguarding this really sucks
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
It would be great if in the assembling guide would be a "how to fasten the belts".
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
There is for the standard one. But nothing there translates to idex
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
You have Extreme noise SOmething is loose. Either a bolt or something Anything above 110 I think it something usually loose or vibrating, etc.
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
so apart from taking it apart a 5th time or using realtime analysis and going through the frequencies. What else would u recommend as a diagnostic method
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Best bed is the toolhead, that something is perhaps loose, all wires and stuff should be ziptied and they should not move at all. Next thing i suggest is checking how tight you actually ar. Maybe you are too tight on the Y?
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
Wires are ziptied
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
When they resonate they slap the extrusion
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
That is normal
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
when you change tension do you deconnect the blocks ?
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
But 125 just screems somehting is not idealy tightened or is loose. Like a bolt or somehting, the rapido as well can be vibrating if its not snug etc. Wdym, disconnecto the blocks?
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
used purple locktight on that
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
On what, the rapido?
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
the top bots holding the whole asembly
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
before everytime i would change tension the gantery would skew so now to avoide that i unscrew them and change
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
If it skews your belt length is not the samw If it's all the same you wouldn't have this issue belt length wise
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
so whats a good way to fix the belt issue? what i did was: Cut the belts in half, then count the teeth left out of the grabber on both sides there are 15 teeth left also another thing, if the printer is left alone, the belt tenssion changes
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
one hour ago both peaks where the same amplitude and now they are different
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
gantry is still square
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
The amplitude say it's not the same because from the grabber if your gantry isn't perfect you can easily. Miss a teeth You should remove the belts and count it that way.
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
they where placed side by side and compared under tension and when instaned i clamped the gantry to the front of the printer so it woudnt move
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
Y belts are equal to the tooth
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
And so is x
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Anrot
Anrot2w ago
@VisualTech48 same with mine?
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Then put them back at the same tooth and put the machine all the way back. Them tighten the x and dc belts while keeping it flush with the back plates. Once you've tighten jt enough put the y belts And then do the same. Also when your put the the x rail to the back make sure that your toolheads are both in the middle You can even zip tie them together while your doing this then after you've tighten it remove the zip tie and adjust based on graphs.
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
i cant visualize this. In what way do you zip tie them also do the front tensioners have to be equal?
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
I'll show it when I get to my pri ter. The machine is imperfect the front tensioners tell you nothing. Don't focus if they are the same way in. Graphs will tell you that.
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
before adding the belts i mean, If one is further in the the other. Would that make one belt longer then the other ?
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Without tension you can't tell because you can rack it easily by hand.
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
ok, i will start getting the belts in the motor mounts and wait for the ziptie trick
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Its not really hard to grasp, I've tried to explain it
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
oh, i thought u ment ziptie the belts somehow ok will try now @Anrot might as well do this together. Our graphs where similar and we both did the same troubleshooting before:D
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
I'm on it
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
IDEX is difficult, but with patiance you will get there.
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
@VisualTech48 aight followed all the instructions and now im here
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
how do i get it equal now without breaking it XD
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Don't do y belt tension on idex. For idex for y you look at the is. It's the same freq but different amplitude. Which means if the belts are the same like you claim some part of the path is longer.
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
im doing is now
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Ie your motor mounts could not be perfect with the extrusion. But the graph is cleaner now Run is let's see
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
Would this much deviation cause the longer belt path?
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
And the other side
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VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
I see gaps. Well your belt tension grapg Basicly says that one of your belt is longet But they are at the same tension It's okey to have that but I feel it's a tad too much gap between them in your case
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
here is the is
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
ill loosen the belts and get the motor mounts flush then ill do it all again
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
You still have some noise on the lower end of hz now that can be anything really. But by the looks of it it's basicly the same tension so you just need to clean it up Look for input shaper on YouTube maybe there could be a bit more info what could it be as well
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
Tried what you told us. I think I'm will use the printer as a table. No matter what I do it is always a mess.
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VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
I don't understand why you folks jsut drop the towel, this is a DIY printer, the idex was known and it is far more difficult to tune. Have patience, and go from slack Towards more tense First make your your X and DC is tight enough Then go to the Y belts. So its tense but not too tnese, as if you go overboard by just 1/8 of the screw you can have horrid graphgs.
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
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VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
You are still binding somewhere.
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
somehow one belt is shorter then another. When the gantry is at the back and both toolheads are in the center, and i tighten the x/dc belt so the gantery is square. If i pluck each belt there is a noticable change in frequency. So my question is, which belt do i shorten and which belt do i make longer?
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Pluck test is not the best method. On the IDEX that is at leeast. Because no machine is perfect, so if you combine a lot of minor differences in distance, you can have that.
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
This usually again indicates, difference in belt leght, if its the same hz but different amplitude. Usually.
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VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
It should be a bit closer basicly, overlapping would be ideal.
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
so remove teeth from the right and add to the left? or just do one side?
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
The issue stems that Y as well pulls the gantry. You can try in your case, if we look at this graph, to release 1 tooth from the right toolhead, and then tension it again to be the same hz. It should come far closer.
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
This was after doing the motor mounts
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
im a try this
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Try it, and the Y graphs indiciate an issue, in your case at least. You managed to nail the same hz, but you have issues with 125+ hz which is something again, saddly loose. You can easily see how Y effects it, if you pull one more of the y and you will see some changes on X as well.
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Find the cause of this, it will help as well.
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
could the loose part be anywhere on the printer or just the motion side?
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Could be even a fan 😄 Its that sensitive. Doesn't mean it will affect your prints though but it can.
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
ill start taking parts off then :))
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Just tighten stuff, see what could be loose. I had a t nut that didn't grab correctly on my sides And it showed on the grahp
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
this might be something to look at im a redo the rails then just to be sure
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
You'd be suprized how many stuff can resonante. It again doesn't mean 100% it will affect your prints. That is why you should not go for perfection but yeah Y is a mess. When Y is somewhat decent you run an acceleration test, and a VFA test. I think someone has a 3.1 idex and has amazing speeds and such With not ideal graphs seemingly.
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
tightened everything that i could
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
back to the previous step havent touched the belts
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
This is actually good. You have it Criss Corss Now you do one belt or the other, and it should "stabilize"
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
how many teeth should i aim for ball park it
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
I'm not sure 100% but basicly if you tighten your right Y, your Left (X) should tighen more. Which should bring you up to speed, now with Y belts. Even the 1/8 can cause your graphs to be wobbly, So do it bit, remember what you moved and then retest.
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
my alen keys have about 1/10 play :)) going to be interesting
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
did 1/8 turn on y right and this is the result. X left went up. X right also went up
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
y right went down and so did y left im a do anoter 1/8 and do a z-tilt after and see whats up
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
that 2nd peak is coming back on y
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VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Try to if you enagage left more to decrese right etc.
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
What he means when he says binding is that somewhere a pully/idler is rubbing or a pully/ idler is broken. Are you using the stock ones or the heavy duty? To check you need to spin them freely with ur hand and see if u feel resistance or its staggering
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
I use the Stock ones, all a Spinning freely
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
3D Printers & a Whiteboard
YouTube
How to Read and Analyze Input Shaper Graphs Generated by Klipper
This video is supposed to be a brief overview on what the input shaper graphs can tell us. It is the first video of a series of videos which will give a more in depth view on the kinematic system and input shaping in Klipper. As always: feel free to jump to those parts, that help you with your problems: 00:00 Intro 00:57 What we can learn from...
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
something has to be rubbing then find the problem and u will have better graphs
Portolasas
Portolasas2w ago
@Anrot I got the same/ a similar problem in the very beginning: And I also double and triple checked everything. In the end I just used trial and error, just adjusting belt tensions.
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Portolasas
Portolasas2w ago
Now, just tightening the X-belts I got from the above graphs to this:
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Portolasas
Portolasas2w ago
Its far from perfect, but shows very clearly, that just one (exactly!) revolution with the screwdriver to tighten the X-belts can sometimes make those huge spikes disappear.
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
I will try to start over again. Maybe i dissasembly the Idex belts and start with the core xy
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
im here now XD
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
1/8 turns at a time
Portolasas
Portolasas2w ago
I suspect that those belts rub against the extrusion in the very back when they are to loose
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
this staggered line is very similar on both of ours
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
cant wait for one of us to share what causes it:))
Portolasas
Portolasas2w ago
regarding the misaligned x-peaks; Should I try to get both to the 50-75 Hz range or how did you proceed?
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
could be a belt lenght issue
Portolasas
Portolasas2w ago
I thought so too... Well I think I will try every possible X-adjustment first and then doing Y and we'll see whether I have to disassemble.
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
same boat as u
Portolasas
Portolasas2w ago
The 3.1 was also a process... Took seemingly way longer to get properly assembled but without the idex tuning was pretty fast
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
3.1 compared to this was a cake walk. Had that calibrated in one afternoon im a week deep in this one now
Portolasas
Portolasas2w ago
I assembled this one in about 28 hours and only had minor difficulties, biggest one was searching for the heavy duty idler pulleys I bought and haven't found till this day 😭
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
input shaper update. I have both y's on EI
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
better then 2hump_EI i was getting before
Portolasas
Portolasas2w ago
what do I do in such a case where one peak "disappears"?
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Portolasas
Portolasas2w ago
Here the corresponding shaper graphs, the T1 graphs look horrendeous
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
I had this happen, means you went to far loosen both sides and start again any idea what you did to smooth the 45 peak? also the 120hz thing can be the umbilical. Might want to tie those together the 40% of the way from the back panel i havent had time to play with it this weekend
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
i'm here now again I don't understand why now Y seems ok but x is catastropic
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
I think ur x is too tight Tune it to 60hz Around that range
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
with 60 Hz it is like this
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
Looks better tbh
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
thx for the suggestion of 60 Hz this is now the best I archived
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
Now the y is the issue that is problem 😂 Im still struggling this that one also @Portolasas has better y then us Dude managed mzv 😭 This thread will get more populated as more people get the idex and run into the same hurdles 😂
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
Yes a bit more instruction in this topic would be great
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
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Anrot
Anrot2w ago
any idea how to move on?
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
Damn son Sexy And is?
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
not so sexy
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
I get the same peak at 50 and 125
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
Thats a lot of vibration on y U need to find the cause of that Im also trying to find it @VisualTech48 any guidance from here? @Anrot Have you tried to ziptie the two umbilicals half way together ? It helped a bit with the 125hz vibration for me
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
No they are not the ziptied toghether but the filament pipe(?) is ziptied to it
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
Try ziptieing them together half way through Also Do u have filament in ur extruders? And also, do u have the oss?
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
yes filament is in. Whats oss?
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
Filament sensors for orbiter
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
ah no not jet
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
Interesting, i have them and was wondering if they where part of the vibration U just saved me disassembling them 😂
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
😅
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
Our graphs are very similar Actually all 3 of ours Same peaks Dose you electronics panel vibrate?
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
a bit but would say this seems to be normal
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
Stick some rubber or foam in it to dampen it See if it helps
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
It would be great to have a list where parts of the printer and Hz are corresponding. For example the 50 Hz may be this or that.
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
We are the guinea pigs 😂
Portolasas
Portolasas2w ago
Y and X are both very much not independent, I have tried so much, I may be able to share later, but I am currently not at home
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
Should I try to bring the X and Y resonance together?
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
Try it and see what happens Im at a christening so tmr ill get back on it
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
Sorry to say but since I invested about 20h in tuning belts and nothing really good came out I feel like Ratrig doesn't really care about us to get this printer working. To be honest until now I don't know how exactly I should start to tune them. My printer now is super slow (benchy 1h) and still the quality is not good. I understand it takes time but since we don't know what to do we are just guessing around.
Portolasas
Portolasas2w ago
I'm really sorry for you. I think the only thing that RatRig is really doing wrong is that they market the product a little bit wrong. It is simply not the case that everyone canbulit such a machine especially with the many new members to 3d printing. I started in 2019 and have rebuilt another printer to suit my own needs. I also built a V-core 3 and then upgraded it to a 3.1. Buying the 4 I very much knew which struggles I would have to endure and that there is no "out-of-the-box-experience". You need some mechanical, electrical and OS-experience to really be able to fix issues in an efficient manner and can feel very easily lost if you don't. I have an engineering background and thereby also some foundation which I can rely on. So of course some things might seem like common sense to me but might not to somebody else. And knowing very well that I have already struggled quite a bit with my setup I can understand your frustration. Two things to always keep in mind: So many people bought the 500 without needing it. I have a small business and I am looking into increasing my capabilities. A bigger printer isn't better; especially speed-wise. More moving mass means less speed, bigger tolerances (many that add up). And even more: A printer with two toolheads introduces more sources of resonance, even more mass and ESPECIALLY the two extra belts multiply the possible tightening scenarios by 4. The don't add to the other two, but are multiplating. So now some general findings of my own; keep in mind this is no scientific study; I just test and assume some fundamental findings. They might be wrong. 1. for X you want to have ZV or MZV and one high peak. Only one toolhead is moving from left to right, so ideally only the resonance frequency of the print head should ideally be visibale. In my case they don't perfectly align, which is okay since they have a different weight and thereby may also have a different frequency.
Portolasas
Portolasas2w ago
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Portolasas
Portolasas2w ago
2. As also mentioned in the comissioning guide, don't focus to much on the belt tension graphs. Since X and Y belts both assert force on X-axis, they are not independent. In my tests I would suggest to start with very low tensions and slowly increase them. First, create the peaks like above for X by tightening those belts, leave Y alone. For me this seems basic knowledge but ALWAYS watch the 1e4, 1e5, etc. It seems like many people don't understand that this is the scale of the axis. So e.g. 1e4 means take the number on the axis and multiply by 10^4. Of course, if your dominant peak increases in amplitude the "side" peaks seem smaller even though quite often they stay the same. 3. Focus on the shaper graphs. What you want to achieve is acceleration and not perfectly aligned belt tensions. From what I noticed, in my case, the gantry stayed square. 4. One eighth of a revolution can often make quite the difference. Many people said that and its true. Move slowly and patiently. Remember, that at least for the Y-belts, tightening the right side a bit is more or less the same as un-tightening the left side a bit. This is less the case for X, since you have two carriages which are not connected but still here you have some dependencies which may seem huge.
Portolasas
Portolasas2w ago
5. For The Y peaks I aimed for at least 5000 mm/s^2 accelaration and got after many rounds of fine adjusting these graphs:
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
damn, those look fine what ballpark frequency did you tune those to? also, what tips did you learn along the way for tuning y?
Portolasas
Portolasas2w ago
They ain't perfectly pretty, but after the testing I have done its totally okay to have two peaks since it seems like the other carriage at the end of the axis always introduces its own frequency. The 100HZ+ range of frequencies are unavoidable. In many graphs they are just seemingly very small pecause the peak is at 1e6. Tightening together part of the wire looms and the PTFE tubes helped a lot with those frequencies.
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
Thanks @Portolasas its also not my first printer to build but this hybrid system is in my opinion way more diffucult than standard corxy. I will try to handle me through your guid there.
Portolasas
Portolasas2w ago
6. For tightening I would suggest the following method: Start loose - tighten X with belt tension graphs so that they are as best aligned as possible - Generate shaper graphs and slowly tighten Y at both side simultaneously - When you get better results switch to X and slowly adjust one side at a time - Then back to Y. Aim for an accelarion you want to reach and be happy when you get there. Don't want more and more. NEVER adjust X and Y at the same time, this introduces so many things you can't foresee. I always did a M84 followed by a homing after tightening, because by tightening the belts you may introduce a gantry twist and thereby "wrong shaper graphs which aren't the same after a restart. Also, there are definetly local maxima of accelaration. So if, for example, you tighten X and the results get worse and you loosen X afterwards and they also get worse you might be at such a local maxima. I suc a case I always switched to the other axis so in this example to Y and continued there.
Portolasas
Portolasas2w ago
Here are my tension graphs:
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Portolasas
Portolasas2w ago
You can clearly see the two Y-peaks and the more or less one x-peak. As mentioned, don't focus on the 100+Hz Y frequencies to much. An exception is if they get to similar amplitude as the main peaks. Then you have a twist, are to tight or to loose. And even though I got to MZV for the Y-axes and I would say that this is a generally good indication of a good tune, EI or Two-Hump EI or sometimes Three-Hump EI, was what I had most of the time. You should watch a general input shaper explanation beforehand to understand what those regression methods mean and where they differ. Accelleration is, of course, important but so are little vibration and smoothing. So keep that in mind. So I hope that helps you guys a bit and everyone that comes after. In total I needed about 30 measurements before I got this results. But ideally you should need less, since I played around quite a bit to get a better understanding of the interactions of the behaviors of the printer. In the beginning you can also make bigger adjustments e.g. quarter (or sometimes half revolutions), until you get in the range where the graphs look good. But I suggest you move slow so you don't miss the turn 😉 @VisualTech48 @Helge Keck Feel free to check the info i have given, maybe some conclusions where utterly wrong, so I can clarify them. Maybe we can also put the thread in the Idex channel for better visibility - if it helps of course.
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
This is my actual effort
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Anrot
Anrot2w ago
i tried to bring x and y peak together but I since one will get to loose and the other to stiff it seems not to be possible
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
@Anrot You might have other issue if your graphgs are as wild as I see this. You are all over the palce saddly, my best suggestion would to really make sure everything is TIGHT, and by tight i Dont mean the belts I mean the actually printer. I didn't have this extreme noise I think even with my 3.1. Toolhead has to be top notch Zipeties, not too much strain for the umbilical Making sure its all snug, and no bolt is vibratiing on the toolhead. Making sure that the EBB is really mounted firmly. That your path of the Y is correct, and that the belts don't dance Y belts are the same lenght That the Y joiner is tight enough and that the x gantry is not racking.
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
Thx @VisualTech48, but I tried all those tips already and cant find anything loose. I tried the built in analysis tool to find the source of the resonaces but again no finding. I'm out of Ideas.
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Did you check if you are racking?
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
y moves also freely
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
take pics of all the joints
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Moving freely, but are the distances from thje motor plates the same left and right?
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
yes they are the same also the frame is square and the rails a paralell
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
@Portolasas where your belts equal or did you have to adjust by a tooth or two? @VisualTech48 hi, seeing as you machine is dialed in. Could we see all your graphs? for reference purposes, just to see what we should aim for
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
@D00M-_ What I had 1-2 month ago:
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VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
But I change my machine a lot I think this was a test with the Dual Rail if I'm not mistaken Basicly you want clean peaks, But even my graphs are not the cleanest. But you should not really go for the cleanest graph but rather best print quality. The idex is complicated really it is, you can, and should always when you get okey graphs actually run the thing, and run perhap a Input Shaper test print. Too see if it actually causes issues.
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
good stuff thank you. Is this a 500?
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
400 The lower HZ is due to again my heavy gantry at the time. I run around 55 if I'm not mistaken
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
alright, more work to be done then 😄
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Yeah saddly idex is complicated, and a far higher curve to do proper. You'll get there with patiance. Ask Helge how much time I spent on mine at first.
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
ive followed ur comment stream so i know it took months 😛 @Anrot do u have a top panel on you machines?
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
not yet, just the backplate
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
add a top to it it compresses the loom and reduces some of the vibrations
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
without top and with top no change to the belts i have to add that my top dosent use magnets but is bolted on
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Re run it a few times see whats what, but again, when you get okey graphs Run them actually. With a test if need be And see if its causing any troubles. Well it is an uphill battle saddly. Again, change someting and then try again. Your 75+ basicly means somethingt again on the toolhead or the umbiiclal etc could be loose.
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
i sent the wrong graph that was without top
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
this is with
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
im going to try to tune the peak lower a bit be at 50
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
If you are on 400 @D00M-_ default I think you can get 55 easily. Let me check.
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
im on 500
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
I see, well these were among my "first" stock IDEX graphs:
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
what upgrades did you do?
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Nothing that is needed, different hotend (Rapido ACE), Titanium Gantry, 5160s, custom top electronics bay, and custom Y belt holder.
Anrot
Anrot2w ago
I'm getting closer, very slowly but closer. I struggle to bring x and y resonacne toghether. Has anyone played with the belt lenght to change the frequency? Normally I have to make Y longer to lower the frequency, maybe I shift it for a few tooths.
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D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
did u but the top on?
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
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Anrot
Anrot2w ago
No, I dissasembled parts of the printers again and tuned belts again. Top is not attached yet. Yours seem to look way better what die you do?
D00M-_
D00M-_2w ago
added the top on, hotglued some wiggely connectors on the toolheads, and started tunning from very loose belts
Anrot
Anrot7d ago
Strange thing is no matter what i try those two peaks won't come toghether
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D00M-_
D00M-_7d ago
What did you do to get it smoothed out?
Anrot
Anrot7d ago
I did what you told me 😅
D00M-_
D00M-_7d ago
dude, 8000 on y is great take the win go drink a beer over night my graphs broke @VisualTech48 any idea what this indicates?
VisualTech48
VisualTech487d ago
Well belts streach initially. You basicly gotta brake down the belts a bit And the temeprature affects it as well keep in mind
D00M-_
D00M-_7d ago
uff
D00M-_
D00M-_6d ago
@VisualTech48 i need some adivce. Ive hit a roadblock. X is good but my y is having issues. nothing i do gets the right belt to come up
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D00M-_
D00M-_6d ago
tried everything but i dont understand why its not moving ive tighted 1/8 at a time and got a a full revolution and its the same graph
D00M-_
D00M-_6d ago
and x stays racked and pretty
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VisualTech48
VisualTech486d ago
Don't look at this. The Y belt graph is not really that important. You want the IS graphs This is important,
D00M-_
D00M-_6d ago
then i got them to align and both peaks where sexy i got good is but noted im running now to see whats up
VisualTech48
VisualTech486d ago
X is important that the belt graphs match But you want it not racking and if that is the case, run a IS graph
spacebaby0695
spacebaby06956d ago
I'm guessing this is a 300 or 400mm build. I had awesome graphs with the Hybrid on my 500. IDEX is giving me a fit One thing that helped me tune the Hybrid was the excite axes feature in Shake-tune. You set the frequecy to where your problem is and you usally can hear it. I would then touch each belt to see wich was giving me problems. The realtime analyst in Rat OS pulses a little differenty. I can't hear it as well but sometimes I can see which belt is vibrating. Still wrapping my head around IDEX because it's not really a core xy anymore. Just x t0 and x t1 with a cartesian Y
D00M-_
D00M-_6d ago
he has a 400 anrot, portolasas and i have a 500 hybrid knowledge dosnt translate
spacebaby0695
spacebaby06956d ago
I think this might have been mentioned but for me as soon as I put the lid on my problems went away. I think the way the umbilical cords are joined in the back they amplify one another. On the 500 the cords are pushed down by the lid dampening them. My graphs looked like your all's and I was ready to give up for the day when I did one last test with the lids. This is just my first day messing with it. I was mentioning the hybrid because it was tricky and the same techniques of listening to and watching the belts at the right frequency apply. At least on mine
Unorthad0x
Unorthad0x5d ago
Im having a heck of a time getting a good graph/ above 4k on y. Are you guys running 500s? If so mind sharing your toolhead to joiner X and tensioner to y block frequencies? Ive had the toolheads both apart and the joiners making sure everything was tight and square and still struggling
Unorthad0x
Unorthad0x5d ago
85hz Toolhead to Joiner, 95hz tensioner to hybrid y block
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D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
Yeah we have 500s Your y is too tight dont use frequencies for this. They will confuse you use this method when tightening - https://discord.com/channels/582187371529764864/1296131270920900720/1296847960939958353 if u need a starting point for belt tension
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
Printables.com
Belt Tension Gauge by Tom Anderson (The Real NEO) | Download free S...
Here is a belt Tension gauge for 5 mm and 6mm wide belts. I have Included the Fusion360 files for adjustments. | Download free 3D printable STL models
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
start at low and work your way up use the belt tension graph only for x get those to match then go do y with IS
Anrot
Anrot4d ago
My problem was that those freqencies are too tight on my machine. I have also a 500
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
this is a different one starts really low i also used the one u posted at the begining and it was so conffusing
Anrot
Anrot4d ago
no i mean 85 Hz and 95Hz
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
yea tunning to the 2nd marker on y gave me MZV right from the start on Y
Anrot
Anrot4d ago
ah good to know. It would be great if Ratrig would malke such a tool for us poor mortal souls to have a good starting point
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
Hello everybody 😁 I have the same problem Updated to hybrid and idex and now it looks like this
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D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
too tight all of it is too tight read the whole thread from the top
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
Oh okay hmm how much hz do you recommend (have also a 500) ? I set it up on 85 and the hybrid on 95 (Used a trummeter like this https://amzn.eu/d/bApebVd)
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
Ah okay but why ? I thought the belts must have a specific Tension
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
two toolheads vs one everything here is completly diffierent then hybrid/normal
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
Ah okay it’s my first Idex don’t know this is a difference But this is only for 6mm Make this a difference?
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
look in the files there is a 9
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
I only see 6 and 5 sorry if I am dumb 😂 but can’t see a 9mm version
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
no, im dumb put the wrong linkl
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
Ah okay haha thank you will print it now
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
start at the second tick from the bottom then look at the video also and follow that when tightening https://discord.com/channels/582187371529764864/1296131270920900720/1296847960939958353
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
Okay where do I have to put this on ? And where should the head be
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
dosnt matter aim for the middle its only to get u started after you get the relativly tensioned, stop using it and focus on the graphs belt tension for x and is for y dont look at belt tension for y or u will be chasing ghosts this will take hours so get ready to go nuts and if u finish and ur happy but u bump the gantry in the back or front it will screw up the tension and u have to do it again
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
Very nice sounds like fun 😂🤮
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
tunning idex is like being 16 and trying to find the g spot XD
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
Hahaha Shit 😂
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
Without doing anything I am in the middle so I have to go down or ?
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D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
second tick start there
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
Ah 😂 yes Forgot I have hybrid This is Moore low
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
the higher u go in tensions the more ur graphs look like they have ADD
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
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03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
Okay good to know 😁
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
do them all like that then do x tension graph and then adjust to get them equal
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
They are all like this
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
r u belts equal? to the tooth?
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
Puh don’t know for shure
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
if they are not u will have a bad day
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
I thought only the tension is important 😂
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
think about this
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
Okay okay 😂
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
and even then if they are equal, u still might need to play with letting one tooth go or pulling on best way is to messure teeth left out of the extruders for y u need to compare them
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
You mean here ?
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
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D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
other side
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
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03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
This one
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
yes count the teeth make sure they are equal
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
Okay should be equal
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
when u cut y, where they equal?
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
Yes Make 1 tooth a difference?
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
yes especially on x
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
I don’t know if the belts are 100% same length on x Cut it 8 weeks ago
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
if i where u id check or u will be chasing ghosts
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
So loosen the belts take it off and look at it Or 😥
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
take them off tape them on the floor and see if they are equal
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
Okay
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
then do the tooth messuring thing for x and for y also tie ur ubilicals together half way to the toolheads starting from the back tie the ptfe tube also
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
What do you mean ?
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
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03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
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03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
This is how I have it now
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
tie them together about half way to the toolheads make sure they can still move also when doing any sort of test, put the lid on
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
Had 3 tooth Moore on one belt
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
make them equal
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
Did it Now back in
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
same for y too
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
So after doing this for all belts
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
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03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
And the inputshaper graphs are generated right now
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
dont do y tensions graph\
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
I only click on the generate belt graphs
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
this looks like its either too tight or something is loose click the arrow and select just x
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
Ah nice don’t saw this till now
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
also do 1/4 on both x and go tension graph again there is no point in doing IS if ur x is not equal focus just on that
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
What do you mean Okay
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
turn 1/4 turn on both x tighten them
03Julian04
03Julian044d ago
Ah okay
XHeli
XHeli4d ago
i never saw such flat blue line O_O
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
blue line is too tight u should be doing 1/8 turns at a time then u will see the line either go up or down there is a threshold tightness where it just disapears and looks like this
XHeli
XHeli4d ago
I tried a couple of thightness levels from very low to thight and literly nothing changed :/ But i can try again a far less tighness
D00M-_
D00M-_4d ago
do 1/4 back on blue then u reach the maximum u will know, then just take off the yellow all ur asjustment should be 1/8 turns at a time
XHeli
XHeli4d ago
thanks, i try it
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Good morning @D00M-_ No matter what I do if I loosen or thighten the belts I don’t get it really better I already checked the screws and everything twice
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D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
where is the yellow belt?
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
I only did the t1 head because the t0 head looks at first okay or „better“ Give me a second will make both heads
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
do 1/8 turn losening on the blue line also, have you done realtime analysis ?
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
No not now
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
vibrate the printer and see if anything is loose?
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
How do you mean ?
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
enter real time anaysis go and start it and then go to the other tab and choose frequency and mode
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
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D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
looks too tight or something is loose
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Where is frequency ? Don’t find it at the real time
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
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03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
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03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
This one
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
tools
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
And now ?
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
go and start it
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Yes But what should I do it with this now
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
i would show u pictures but mine is dead =)) dosnt want to open
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
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D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
ill type what u want to do is have t0 in the middle start the real time anaylsis then go to tools select x and move the slider slowly up like 5 hz ever 5 seconds and then listen to the printer and hear if anything is ratteling if there is ratteling, find it with ur finger. Touch parts of it until it stops then do this again by selecting y and the x+y and then x-y then to it all again with t1 have fun=))
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Ah okay thank you
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Now I tested and don’t find any loose things Then I loosen the belts to the minimum of the scale (from your print file yesterday) and this came out
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D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
nice
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Then thighten a Little Bit more and This
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03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Is this good ?
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
go back to this then untighten yellow by 1/8 turn
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Okay
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
So this is what I got now What is your opinion?
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03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
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03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
And this is the is
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
do more tunning also y is too tight
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
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03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Is this now good ?
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
get the peaks to be the same height
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
And why do we have only one Rash I thought we need two
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
rash?
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Peeks Or what is the name for
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
idex needs both to be equal
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
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D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
the fact that each toolhead is independant needs this if they are not equal then u do vaoc there will be error s
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Ah okay so if I have one toolhead I need two and with Idex I need one or ?
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
For example this is what I need for one head
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D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
thats when u have two belts for one head here u have one belt one head
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Ahhh
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
u should get only one peak
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Okay Thank you
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
and they have to be perfectly overlaped 1/2% dif max
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Okay 👍
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
until u have that done, there is no point in doing IS for y also, after every motification to tension m84 then home you should also check gantry squareness by moving toolheads to center and all the way back
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Ah okay this is what I don’t do What does m84
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
turns off steppers
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Ah okay Without the belts it was perfect Will check if the graph looks good
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
is it not perfect now?
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Don’t looked again since then
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
look now no point in moving forward if its not square
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
It’s not 100% perfect but if I loose the belts then it is
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
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Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
wow, your belts are fucked
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
What do you mean
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
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D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
hes fucking with you
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
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03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
And what is the problem here is?
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
dont you see that? they are broken
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Where ?
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
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D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
i dont see it either, are you refering to the color take a close up of the blocks
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
ohhh, its the y belt block, LMAO
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Yes 😁
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
@03Julian04 loosen all ur belts. Do the tensioner trick on just one of the x belts and then get the gantery square by tighening the opposite belt. As you tighten it the tension in the belt with the tension meter will decrease. dont do y until u have x square follow the video for positioning the toolheads after u tighen a bit move the gantery back and forth the get the belts to stabilize do this until u get the joiners to stay flush with the motor mounts then do y belts to minimum tension
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Okay also without the belts it is not aligned
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
then u have to get it square u tightented to much and got it out of square loosen the joiners and get it perfect
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Yes Will do it
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
@Cruz for idex comisioning guide, this is the best place to get inspired on steps:D
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
What do you think do I have to do if the blue is too low ? Thighten or loosen the belt or could it be both ?
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D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
have you reached the threshold of x? if u do another 1/8 turn tight on blue dose it go up or down ?
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Yes bevor i thoghten the belts it was perfectly aligned on the back
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
not what i asked
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Okay what do you ask for ?
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
. .
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
If I thighten the left one 1/4
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03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
This came out but the problem is that if I put the x back then the left side is too far away so normally the right side have to be thighter What do you think
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
i think you should have 2 peaks and not jsut one there is something wrong most likely binding belts somewhere
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
On idex too ?
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
you cant fix that with belt tension ohh this is IDEX
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Yes
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
then the belt tension graph is useless anyway it only tells you if you have vibrations or not
Unorthad0x
Unorthad0x3d ago
Even for x?
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Okay then what should i look at
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
the belt tension grpah helps you to equalize the corexy belts
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
How much tension ?
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
more improtant is the input shaper graph
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
And at what do I have to look there ?
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
but your orange line tells you that you suffer from some vibraitons
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
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Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
its minor though you need to make sure that your tension still provides a square gantry this is key also, the y belts affect this graph as well thats why input shaper is more improtant for a idex
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
And how much tension
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
if you ahve too much tension on the idex your input shaper grpahs are fucked
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
Without equal tension on x, all my is graphs where shit As soon as i had equal x i had mzv on is for x Then it was easy to do y
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
this isnt necessarily the tensionm these graphs do not tell you anything about the needed tension, these belts are not connected to the same hotend
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D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
Tried this and vaoc was shit. When i fixed it it worked My way worked for me
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
of course you need similar tension on both toolheads, i jsut say this graph doesnt necessarily tells you the right tension input shapoer graphs are more reliable for idex
Unorthad0x
Unorthad0x3d ago
What was your process for getting belts tuned well? I'm ashamed to admit this but I've got 12+ hours tweaking and running graphs trying to get a good result. My best shaper was 8k x and 4k y. I wrote down the tensions I was at and tweaked more trying to get better thinking I could readjust to those tensions and get that result back if needed. Now I can't even get back there
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
make sure all belts have the exact same length, make sure the are identical inserted in all belt blocks on y and the toolheads, make sure the front belt tensioner are equal and then make sure the gantry is square then tune T0 and then T1 then Y make small adjustments to tune all of them there is a relationship between Y and X/DC, if there are disharmonies you get shitty grpahs takea about 15 mintues to get ok input shaper graphs assuming you do not suffer from vrbations
Unorthad0x
Unorthad0x3d ago
Guess I'm pulling belts and counting teeth - everything is square and I've had tool head, joiners, and stacks apart to rebuild and check I assumed tensioners could make up for any length difference
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
what oyu see here is a completely vibration free graph for a idex
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Wow 11600 acc
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
thats an old graph from my VC3.1 IDEX with the VC4 300 you can reach about 15k if its perfectly tuned but mainstream 10k is the goal
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
And the 500
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
i have no experience with a 500 IDEX idk but i assume you should be able to get 5 or 6 k
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Okay I will see where I get I am doing right now the is will see where I am
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
i short, get rid of any vibration, make sure y and x/dx belts are harmonized
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
So do you think this is good for x
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Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
try it
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
What can the problem be if y is rubbish ?
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Like this
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Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
make small adjsutments on y, repeat is grpah, and repeat repeat repeat
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Can it only be the belts from the hybrid ? Or can it also be the belts from the heads ?
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
Looks too tight Once u finish with x, go do y, then come back to x as changes on y might impact x
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Now I think I got it
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Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
its a start now do one with copy and mirror mode and you will see some magic
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
How do I do this ?
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
1. home printer 2. enable copy mode 4. run input shaper
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Ah okay Can I also use copy mode like this ? Or do I have to activate it in the slicer too ?
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
thats how you do it the slicer doesnt care about it
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
So I slice one object and then activate copy mode and the printer copy it ? And where do I have to place the model on the plate ?
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
you jsut print as usual but you enable copy mode before
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Do I have to think the middle
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
the printer or the slcier do nto really copy the object the printer doesnt even know that you use copy mode you place a object i the middle of the plate and print
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Ah okay and how big can it be ? 250mm wide ?
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
copy mode half the build plate, mirror mode less
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Okay thank you
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
but i HIGHLY recommend to not use copy or mirror mode yet you should print first successfully soem prints at least if everything works reliable then you can do that
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
@Helge Keck on his y1 graph, ive seen the exact same double peak on a lot of graphs including my own. What causes this? Any idea
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
disharmonic x and y belt there are 3 indivudual belts that need to work together if they dont you get these graphs
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
so u still need more tunning then to get it right dose printer size make it harder?
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
not really
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
looking forward when yall gonna add belt tennsion sensors and automate all this Adaptive Belt Tensioning:D
Helge Keck
Helge Keck3d ago
keep dreaming, do something for your money
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
This is with copy mode enabled
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D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
without dreamers there would be nothing cool on this earth:D And i do, i make concrete crap and lamps:P u have a bit of vibration in ur umbilical is it resonating against the top?
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
No this was with no top on it
D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
add it will improve the graphs
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
Okay will test this later @D00M-_ @Helge Keck how is this possible I only change the place of the printer
03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
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03Julian04
03Julian043d ago
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D00M-_
D00M-_3d ago
my guess is you twisted the frame and it applied pressure on the belts or your floor is uneaven and its twisting the frame
03Julian04
03Julian042d ago
Oh men this thing is making me crazy @D00M-_ Which value do I write in the config ? The lowest of every one or do I write every value ?
D00M-_
D00M-_2d ago
yeah the lowest for single each value for copy and mirror the lowest
03Julian04
03Julian042d ago
Can you send a foto of your config so I know how to write it
D00M-_
D00M-_2d ago
im not home atm there is a section in printer.cfg at the top in the macro section where you fill in the blanks
03Julian04
03Julian042d ago
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03Julian04
03Julian042d ago
Here ?
Helge Keck
Helge Keck2d ago
no, for a idex remove that section add thsi instead
[gcode_macro RatOS]
variable_shaper_x_freq: [66.6, 65.2, 61.5, 68.1] # toolheads shaper frequency [T0, T1, COPY, MIRROR]
variable_shaper_y_freq: [70.0, 68.8, 67.3, 66.7] # toolheads shaper frequency [T0, T1, COPY, MIRROR]
variable_shaper_x_type: ["mzv", "mzv", "mzv", "mzv"] # toolheads shaper frequency algorythm [T0, T1, COPY, MIRROR]
variable_shaper_y_type: ["mzv", "mzv", "mzv", "mzv"] # toolheads shaper frequency algorythm [T0, T1, COPY, MIRROR]
[gcode_macro RatOS]
variable_shaper_x_freq: [66.6, 65.2, 61.5, 68.1] # toolheads shaper frequency [T0, T1, COPY, MIRROR]
variable_shaper_y_freq: [70.0, 68.8, 67.3, 66.7] # toolheads shaper frequency [T0, T1, COPY, MIRROR]
variable_shaper_x_type: ["mzv", "mzv", "mzv", "mzv"] # toolheads shaper frequency algorythm [T0, T1, COPY, MIRROR]
variable_shaper_y_type: ["mzv", "mzv", "mzv", "mzv"] # toolheads shaper frequency algorythm [T0, T1, COPY, MIRROR]
03Julian04
03Julian042d ago
Ah Okay thank you
XHeli
XHeli19h ago
hello again and good morning (if the timezone fits;). I have a issue, and im a little bit confused: Wether i measure X or Y Axsis, every time the PSD is far lower on the left side (100 Times lower, i.e. 60.000 instead of 2.000.000) i tried every tension from extremly low to like an iron rod. In the best case i reached 80.000. The right side is a poc to adjust for x and y axis
D00M-_
D00M-_18h ago
pics or it didnt happen 🙂
XHeli
XHeli17h ago
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XHeli
XHeli17h ago
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XHeli
XHeli17h ago
right and left x-tension is almost the same and gantry perfectly aligned all idler pulleys controlled, belt always in the middle of pulleys hand-movement feels very smooth maybe tool-board damaged ?
VisualTech48
VisualTech4816h ago
Dont look at Y tensions grahps But your X is fucked 😄 What is the size of the printer? You could overtensioned it. Thus lkoosing one of the amplitudes. In you rcase the T0 toolhead
D00M-_
D00M-_16h ago
less is more @XHeli if its a 500 then ur way over tensioned
03Julian04
03Julian0416h ago
Yes I can agree haha it looks like waaay too lose but that was perfect
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