X stopped working when changing to Hybrid
Basically, everthing is working with the CoreXY motion.
I finish setting the Hybrid motion, change the configuration in the configurator and suddenly X stops working (like trying to move but it can't so it makes this thumping sound), but Y works??????
284 Replies
CoreXY printer cfg
Hybrid printer cfg
Homing X
can you record manually moving to the center, then setting center kinematic position, then record moving to the left, right, front and back? with clear indications of which way you're trying to move?
what do you mean with manually moving? m84 and move it by hand?
yeees
the pin directions in the hybrid config line up to my hybrid config but a stepper could be wired backwards
I feel like that's the only reasonable explanation, but seeing as this is not idex i'm not so confident on my assumption anymore.
still possible
Only need to see left and right, front and back dont need to since you said Y homes just fine
Hope this is enough
you are missing a shim on the bottom right bearing stack
as far as the motors, I probably did not explain well enough
however
I was wondering if it was supposed to be like that. Will try to find it
my suggestion possibly would just be to try and flip direction of either x motor and see if that fixes your X homing issue.
When Homing X, the gantry should not move in Y at ALL. So whatever combination of flipping the X motor direction you need to do to achieve that would help you out!
trial and error
Reversed the X and it moved like y backwards š
Nope
how are you reversing?
with the ! in front of the dir_pin
ok just checking
so reversing either X or X1 did not help?
nope
Any of the 4 combinations worked
did it make a difference in homing or did it keep doing the same thing?
Neither
Reversed X: moved direction Y backwards
Reversed X1: moved direction Y fowards (it decided then to moved x but it was doing a trrrrrrrrr noise)
Both reversed: moved x reversed with same trrrr noise
This happens
LOL did not like that
Yeah :kekw:
ok homing Y, when that moves forward does the head stay in the same spot?
moves normal
video pls?
what on earth
@chicken you have any ideas
Yep
CoreXY works perfectly, changes to Hybrid and X doesn't work
unplug both y hybrid motors and retest homeing X
ah this is a good idea
buried in work calls today as I fly out in the morning for the week. I'll try to keep an eye on this thread between calls
No sweat, just got my mind boggled by Y working just fine lol
Unplugged it
Well... This happens
so both your Y hybrid motors are unplugged?
Yes
Hm
maybe run through the configurator again and setup as hybrid? maybe something got corrupted when you changed over
Ok
Since it's setup as Hybrid rn, should I changed it back to CoreXY and then back again to Hybrid?
Just to check my sanity, here's how it moves fine when configured to CoreXY
Configuring from CoreXY to Hybrid again
:pepehands:
check X motors for pulley slipping
how?
tightening the set screws on the toothed pulley on the stepper motors lol
adjust and make sure one set screw is on the flat of the shaftr
Oh I tightened it the first time I noticed it
hmmmm
dangit
Thought I had something
The only other thing I can think of is binding with your X motion
Translation in Y while moving X means something is up with one of your X motors not moving the same amount as the other
well but then it works just fine while in hybrid
sorry, corexy
That's the part where I'm bamboozled
I'm having a hard time finding a reason for this other than config, but idk where it would be wrong
is everything up to date in update manager?
Yep
That's my guess too, but I don't know why
@MDFPereira maybe you have some thoughts?
X and Y homes fine when put into CoreXY for configurator,
X homes incorrectly, but Y homes fine in Hybrid for configurator?
Check wiring and stepper settings on configurator
I'm gonna tag along 'cause I've been dealing with this same issue for 3 days now. Y motion when homing x. Y position shows 200 after homing, and straps out the same. X position shows 200, but sits at 85. Checked it this morning - move x 50 and that translates to 25 when measured on the plate. I haven't tried unplugging the hybrid motors yet - just glad I'm not the only one....
X - Motor 0
X1 - Motor 4
Y- Motor 1
Y1- Motor 3
For the cables, I followed them like on the guide
Interesting, in the config for CoreXY the X and Y motors are on Motor 0 and Motor 1, respectively
Nevermind I thought I had something
My brain is fried
Did you make it past the calibrations in the commissioning guide? My toolhead went off the right side of the bed - that's what started all of this.
No. I installed the belts and changed the config and was planning to do the input shaping
Tried to home for it and, ag as you can see, the rest is here
sorry
No worries. I'm groping in the dark as well. I'm not sure if it's of any relevance, but are your wiring layouts the same on for the JST connectors going to the board. I've different variations depending on which motor it's coming from. Still trying to get somewhere positive with this: https://discordapp.com/channels/582187371529764864/1340069988714676366
If you leave it configured for hybrid and disconnect both Y steppers, what happens when you home X. Not sure if I asked you to do that or not.
I did it. It moved like only 1 motor was functioning
So it moved in X movement or Y as well?
This happens
Yep
Can you share ratos-debug.zip so I can check the config?
sure. one sec
nothing strange here...
can you send VERIFY_HYBRID_INVERTED from the console?
Nothing happens?
Hmmm
Let me check with Mikkel and Helge
@guesswhatsthisparlor at quick glance the config seems right.... Lets try a few things..
1. Trace down the wires again for each of the steppers and what port they are wired to on your MCU
2. can you confirm you are on an octopus MCU?
3. when you try to home, with the two Y hyrbird steppers unplugged, does it looks like both of the corexy steppers are moving? They should both be moving at the same speed if just X is homing. When X is moving to the left, both steppers if I was looking down on the pinion gear would be going counter clockwise. You can see the movement at the front as the set screws on both the corexy steppers will be moving from left to right
4. If they do not seem to be moving at the same speed, maybe you have a defective wire to one of the steppers, a bad stepper or a bad driver for that. An interesting test would be to swap wires between the two coreXY steppers and then remap them in the RatOS configurator. If its stepper driver or a wiring problem I suspect you would see the gantry move forward while you are homing X instead of moving backwards
5. If it still seems like one is not moving or not moving at full speed, I would go as far as disconnecting the coreXY belts and look at the stepper movements to see if they seem be the same without any load on them. Not sure why going Hybrid would make a difference but it might be more effort for the stepper to move the X direction with hybrid on.
6. Even though the config looks like, maybe there is something stuck in the config. How much config do you have in the printer? If not much, it may be worth just reimaging the pi and going straight to hybrid configuration.
before you mess with belts and wiring, it might just be best to reimage the pi as I suspect thats less work that messing wires and belts
also once you trace down the wires to ports, can we get a close up picture of the MCU and the ports you are plugged into?
Should I delete all my save_configs?
@chicken
1. They are correctly wired
2. Yes (Octopus 446)
Y Homing with both Hybrid motors unplugged
@MDFPereira
The motor x movement while in Hybrid
My flatmate helped me by these ones š
If those two videos are of the same movement that left coreXY stepper is running at a slower speed. The question is it even moving under its own power or getting dragged along. Hard to tell with the belt on. If you donāt have any special configs on the pi I would just reimage the SD card at this point and pick hybrid from the start and see if you somehow found a bug. It seems like electrical and hardware you are fine. Not sure.
Yeah, they are at different points, but both home x
Stepper buzz from stepper x
Ngl I'm getting really frustrated with the vc4
Folks - for what it's worth I was able to rectify the independent motion x and y on my hybrid machine. Confusion in the build guide I defaulted to "SPI" mode for the drivers. Waiting for an answer here I decided to clean up some wiring and try out UART mode. The toolhead now moves independently in both the x and y direction, and perhaps more important to me homes to 200,200 and straps out the same off the board. Moving the head to 0,0 puts the toolhead in the front left corner of the bed. I hope the same works for you if you had your jumpers set up the same. SPI - 4 jumpers installed on the right two pins for every driver slot. UART - only the right two pins have a jumper on the second row from the top of each row of driver slots. Bon chance!
I didnāt think the 2209 drivers worked in SPI mode but maybe. @guesswhatsthisparlor can you confirm the uart jumpers are set correctly as per the docs?
I'm using 5160T Pros
In 24V
Will change the board for the 48V soon
5160T Pros for X, Y and Hybrid + 2209 for Z
5160 are spi only
Yep, they're in spi
So itās an octopus pro? If so are all the drivers currently jumpered to use the main power supply and not the motor power supply?
No. I'm bad at explaining
The original board was an octopus pro, but the motor 6 slot wasn't working. I had an octopus 446 as a spare so I'm using it rn
Will buy a new octopus pro when I have money again
Ahh. All good. At this point if everything is wired up correctly and the jumpers are all set correctly I see a few different next steps to try. It seems like the left coreXY stepper is moving slower than the right. These are the things I would tryā¦
1. Reimage the pi and build configuration from scratch as a hybrid printer. This would make sure some gremlin is not stuck in the configuration somewhere
2. If itās still not working, swap the left and right coreXY stepper wires and then remap in ratos. This way we can test if itās the port/driver/wire is the problem or not by using the left wire, driver and port on the right side and visa-versa. If the right becomes the one that slows down we know itās something to do with the port, driver or wire.
3. After all of this itās down to maybe a bad stepper as maybe the problem. Not seen one like that but who knows.
Offline for a few hours for a meeting
Reimaged the pi
Updating everything
Bad news boys
I forced the a hard recovery on the corrupt repository. I still have the same error showing up and the configurator is unavailable with 502 error
Clicking on update manager like my life dependant on it
Yep. Never use neither soft nor hard recovery
Ssh to the pi and send ratos doctor
Hard refresh the browser with ctrl+shift+r after ratos doctor
I'm a man in the middle attack
Did you install anything on it other than RatOS?
And try with the ip instead of the Remi.local
Nope
The connection to your rpi timmed outā¦
Are you sure it is the correct ip?
I always confuse the ips p
192.178.168.whatever is a very strange ip
Okā¦
That system looks veeeeery broken
I will just rereimage then
There will probably still have some kinder egg surprises waiting
And that error is the first time I see it. VibrationPulseTest
What is above that? Canāt see the complete error
Sorry, I just closed it to reimage
ok
I'm updating everything
@MDFPereira
Just reimaged it
restart moonraker and hard refresh on the browser.
and keep hitting refresh on the updates
it will come back, eventualy
and for updates, always RatOS and RatOS-configurator before everything else
Ok
Is it normal for it to get stuck for 10 min
reboot
Yes sir
Ok
New refresh
Everything freshly updated
Moment of truth
Internal error on command: "G28"
did you re run the configurator?
Will rerun it
Let's see what happens
Reran it
Same problem
Internal error on command:"G28"
Internal error on command:"HOME_Y"
Internal error on command:"G28"
ratos-debug, please. The newer one
missing beacon calibration
either do it again or copy the overrides from old printer.cfg
Doing it again doesn't change anything
doing what?
you said doing it again. i assumed it was going through the configurator again
beacon calibration!
nothing to to with the configurator
But it doesn't home??????
Refresh, double check for updates. Maybe require a PI reboot
ran ratos doctor
nothing changed
ran through the configurator again
nothing changed
Went from homing y but no x to not homing at all
Sorry, just super frustrated rn
Internal error on command:"M84"
Internal error on command:"M84.1"
M84 is ādisable steppersā
What version of RatOs do you have after update?
I know. Was trying to manually move the bed up. Was surprised that that didn't work either. Writing for catalogue purposes
Wait
RatOS Core: Configurator & Configuration
v2.1.0-RC3-26-g33980992
RatOS Core: Theme
v2.1.0-RC3-0-g9f8d27d3
External: Beacon Surface Scanner
v2.0.0-21-gee5d7709
External: Crowsnest Webcam Manager
v4.1.11-1-g87669ccd
klipper
v0.12.0-439-g1fc6d214
External: KlipperScreen Touchscreen Interface
v0.4.5-50-ge71fe755
External: Linear Movement Analysis
v1.0.0-0-g309a81ce
External: Mainsail Web Interface
v2.13.2
moonraker
v0.9.3-59-g62051108
Should I try 2.0.2 RatOs?????? Or like RatOS 2.1.0-RC2?????
VC4 will not work with ratos 2.0
Then an older version on Ratos 2.1?
something else is wrong..... have you made any manual edits to any config files?
I assume everything is fully updated on RatOS. If so are you sure you picked the correct octopus board as there are a number with different chips on them and maybe you are getting errors like this if you picked the wrong one. Though I think the MCU would not connect
No, they came straight out of a new installation. I didn't edit anything
There was one system upgrade rn, but it didn't do anything
Host(aarch64, 32bit)
Version: v0.12.0-439-g1fc6d214f-dirty
OS: Raspbian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye)
Distro: RatOS v2.1.0-RC 1 (bullseye)
can you confirm you have the correct octopus chip selected?
Is it normal for it to be dirty?
what to be dirty?
The version of the host. In the end, it's written dirty
yes
I forget the exact reason but its something to do with any changes not stock, or something along that lines
my kids minion shows that as well
its not updated so do not compare versions š
Ok
Interesting
do you remember did you update the printer first then walk through the configurator or configurator first then updated?
Configurator then update
hmm... docs call for updating first then configurator. I know there have been some klipper changes since the image you flashed you printer with and wondering if some of the config changed somehow. https://docs.ratrig.com/v-core-4-0/commissioning-guide. Can you reflash the SD card in the Pi again and follow the doc steps exactly by joining it to your network, then doing the exact upgrades steps in step 2 and then the configurator?
everything I see around internal errors are config errors and if you have not changed any files manually it seems like configurator built it wrong and wondering if that was due to your building config before upgrading
Sure
Gimme a minute
sorry for the problems. its rough but once you get it printing its a great printer
quality and speed are awesome
Should I format the sd card?
the imaging tool should wipe it but if you want to format first its not going to hurt it
ok
Ok. Everything is fresh installed
First update everything then configurator
No edits from me
Bad news boys
We came back to the beginning
Y moves normally, but x doesn't
:kekw:
ugh, at least we are back where we were.... its got to be an electronics issue. Bad stepper, stepper driver, stepper cable or bad port on the octopus.
I think the easiest thing at this point is to swap the cables from the left and right corexy steppers and then remap them in the ratos configurator
that will tell us if its an electronics issue or not as the movement will be different if it is
Ok
Inverted them in RatOs
Moment of truth chicken
Same issue
@MDFPereira my bad, I did the configurator before the updates
you swapped the cables as well correct?
if so its moving in a different direction which is a difference. It was going to the left and back and now its going to the right and forward
the goal is to try to point to the driver, mcu & cable vs the stepper itself
Yes
Motor L- Motor 4
Motor R- Motor 0
on a call and I need to think about the movement being different if that means the stepper or the other parts making it differnt. Give me a hour and I'll see if I can find a few minutes to think about it
No problem man
Thanks a lot for the help thus far
:ratrig_heart:
I dont see a good diagram that shows both belt paths on a VC4 but I think this is good enough. I dont know why the gantry is moving in a different direction now, forward and to the right vs backwards and to the left, so we would need to double check the config changes on the swap you made. But either way it shows only the right stepper is moving for some reason as if you look at this diagram, the right stepper moves the toolhead in those directions vs the left one moves it in the opposite direction. Are you Y steppers plugged in right now as I would have suspected they would have held the Y from moving.
its also configured for hybrid mode correct?
Yes
the Y steppers plugged in?
They were
really strange... I remember you saying you started with an octopus pro but something was wrong with it so you went back to the octopus. What happened and are you reusing any components like the drivers, etc?
The Motor slot for Z1 (motor 6 i think) wasn't working. Swapped cables, drivers, everything. Swapped boards and then it began working. I reused everything
ok. I am not sure where the issue is and we need to try and figure out what stepper is moving and what one is not. Normally I would use the stepper_buzz command I had you try but you said everything was working. Can you try that again and see if they are still working?
Sure
Gimme a minute
WTH. I have no clue. Go ahead and wire it back how the docs say and remap the steppers back to what the docs say as well including for the hybrid steppers. From there test it again and make sure its doing what it was doing about going back and to the left. From there upload a current debug file and I'll look at the configs again
Ok something weird happened
When I buzz the stepper y and y1, the complete right side moved
wait I'll make a video
Hmmmmmmm
its hard to see on my phone right now... what do you mean the whole right side moved? you mean the gantry or the right corexy stepper as well?
The y and y1 are the Hybrid motors. Doing the command to buzz them only buzzed x1 and y1
Both times
Wait lemme rewire
Well, something went wrong again. Clicking to move x to the right moves y to the back
Anddddd
Stepper buzz to Stepper x buzzes Stepper y1
Hmmmmmm
I'm an idiot
Nvm
sorry, confused.. what is the current status?
I'm dumb
But
This
I accidentally changed the wires. Didn't work. Did them correct and it still doesn't work
yah put it all back the correct way then both wires and config. On calls for a few hours and I'll look at the debug again
You just translate my bullshit so well :ratrig_heart:
one other thing, did you crimp any of the stepper wires or are they premade ones. Can you get me pictures of the left and right stepper plug wires and the left and right where they plug into the MCU so I can check wiring order?
Premade crimp for the steppers
take pictures of both ends for all four steppers so we can make sure its not a crossed wire. I dont think that explains why it worked in CoreXY mode but its time to turn over every rock to find where your problem is
stepper motors are clearly fighting. Could you send a pic of your control board? and a pic of it with the stepper drivers removed?
It's almost like one is travelling not as far or has different steps
but your config shows the correct steps/mm
I think with the reflash and reconfig we've eliminated software issues?
I would think with the reflash and reconfig he has eliminated it. Something still seems screwy.
I just wonder if one of the plugs is rolled and the stepper is moving in the wrong direction. Still does not explain some of the videos though.
There's a problem with the recent vids, he's ran the Y steppers so they are holding it in position
This is different than the previous vids where the y steppers were off
@guesswhatsthisparlor Can you restart your printer, physically (with your hand) move the extruder to the center of the bed, and follow these steps?
I was doing this in the video
I know but the difference was your Y stepper motors were enabled
I need them off
Off as unplugged or off as corexy config?
Off as just not powered, by running the M18 command as shown in the image
Ok
One sec
please and thank you <3
sex
oops
@Wetson
I'm aware it's a mess
can you invert the right stepper direcition and then let me know?
I know we already tried all the invert combos, but I just wanna try again with the reflash
w h a t
ok yeah
so back to being confused
uh
try physically swapping the motor connectors for left and right
Did this before, but why not
oh if we've already tried
Here
oh wait
have you tried swapping the physical motor connections but NOT changing it in RatOs>?
Not yet
Lessgooooooo
let's try that :)
It will still probably move in the wrong direction but may be some sort of progress
which if it matches this chart we can correct
(note that the 2 images on the right are identical and idk which is which but we'll figure it out lol)
Cables swapped, but no edits in RatOS
that seems to move smoothly. we may have to do some sort of inversion with the steppers then. The more I read the chart the more I'm confused so I guess we'll try all 4?
if that doesn't work then we're at square one
:(
but I'm still mildly hopeful
Uhhhhh
First click was x going right, second click was y going back......
???????????????????
????
w h a t
with M18, is it pretty easy to move the gantry around? doesnt snag?
Nope
wel that could be a problem
With M18
I mean I guess that's smooth enough
hm
hm
hm
hm
why would it be missing steps... that's so odd. You've retraced the wiring and it all looks happy healthy, swapping stepper drivers maybe?
hold on I think I'm stupid
no nevermind this isn't idex
Nope
Is it too rude for @ people at this point?
Wouldn't hurt imo :pepehands:
@MDFPereira
@TheTik @blacksmithforlife šŗšø
Busy
Sorry
been on vacation, lemme catch up
I haven't done a hybrid setup
Only one motor is active when you're homing X. That's bad. My guess is you've swapped X1 and Y or Y1. You can fix this in the advanced stepper configuration section in the wizard (On the hardware configuration step).
Also it doesn't look like you fixed this
I'm worried that may catch the top belt because it moves a ridiculous amount.
Okay, reading through I think I'd not be of any use. Also have never done a hybrid setup. And so many things have been tried and swapped I'd want to physically rewire it from scratch.
Is there any way to verify each stepper driver and stepper movement? Like, is every stepper actually working?
stepper_buzz
Every stepper buzzes
I've only used that to verify it it getting power, or to tell which one is which. Does that validate correct movement?
Yes, that's not the end what it's useful for though. You need to ensure that the right stepper buzzes.
and by right i mean correct
y and y1 should buzz the two top motors.
Yes, the correct stepper buzzes
Are you 100% sure of that?
Because only 1 stepper is moving in your videos when you have the hybrid Y's disconnected and you're homing X.
Ergo, one of the corexy steppers is not doing anything when it should be.
Stepper x
Stepper X1
Aight then i'm pretty sure your issue is this
Fix that stack (and possibly others) this is quite bad.
If the top flanged bearing moves up to block the top belt you'll get the issue you're currently having.
Ok
Is that tall spacer too short or something?
I don't know. I rechecked the instructions and they use one Mini Precision Shim
Will search for the missing piece
I think it's the wrong spacer
these stacks should not move at all in the vertical direction
Itās supposed to look like this
(Ignore the pulley though)
This is misaligned too (however i think it's just the pulley that's too low)
You should probably go over all your stacks and get that alignment fixed it'll screw you over down the line.
2/2 bad stacks doesn't bode well for the others lol
I think it was a 5x8x4mm aluminium spacer
couldn't find it at first pass
None of those are 5x8x4
That's a 5x8x4
5 ID, 8 OD, 4mm tall
The fact that your top spacer is too short probably means you've used the longer one where the short one should've gone. Or it's just all switched up, i hope that's not the case š
(pro tip, keep your calipers handy when doing your bearing stacks, measure your hardware)
@guesswhatsthisparlor did you figure out your problem?
Hey @chicken. Well I discovered something.
For the life of me, I cant't find the 5x8x17mm aluminium spacer. I suspect (not pointing fingers) that RatRig forgot to send me. I was one of the first shipped to Germany and maybe QC didn't caught it. That happened before
You sure itās not on one of the other stacks? I would pull both stacks apart and check every spacer with calipers to make sure the stack is correct.
Checked everything
No 5x8x17 spacer on sight
Do you know if you can ask them for an extra one?
Of course you can. And they will send itā¦
The part arrived
@chicken missed you buddy
I got home yesterday on my 18th flight of the year. FML
its been a year
We're not even done with March!!
I had way too much fun making this
And I was led to believe that chickens lost the ability to fly long ago.
Well boys
I disassembled and put the new part in
Assembled it again
However, I must have done something wrong, since manually moving the gantry causes only 1 of the X motors to move
Let's see
The answer is no, nothing changed :sadpepe:
Bottom Left: X (Motor 0)
Upper Left: X1 (Motor 4)
Bottom Right: Y (Motor 1)
Upper Right: Y1 (Motor 3)
Results of STEPPER BUZZING
x should be the bottom left stepper, x1 the bottom right, y the upper left and y1 the upper right
HOLY FUCK IT WORKED
HAHDHDHAHDHDHWQHHWDHIOWIODI
ITS MOVING
That was such a bs solution
TLDR: When moving to hybrid mode in the Configurator, it swapped X1 and Y
Well, thanks for the help guys:ratrig_heart:
That's so funky
Glad you got it working