Quality in clothing - Topic of the day 9/21/23
What is "quality" in clothing? Is seeking quality in your clothing purchases worthwhile, or is it overexaggerated from MFA days past? When you pay more for higher end brands, are you paying for quality? Quality of what? Discuss anything and everything to do with clothing quality here!
132 Replies
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I prefer at a price point design over quality.
Paying for quality raises my expectations too much and I'm less likely to just enjoy. But if I drop big bucks on something, i want it to feel substantial. "Quality" is such a nebulous term
Serious answer: Quality is a really nebulous term and it will mean different things to different people. MFA and most non-fashion folks tend to view quality thru the lens of things like durability and how long an item will last.
I think the hyper focus on durability is generally a mistake, especially for styles and items that are so basic and common as fatigues, denim, etc.
BIFL clothing -> Instant Classic
same sort of nonsense
The durability and life expectancy is definitely a hold over from the basic bastard days when people wanted to make a capsule wardrobe that they never wanted to have to change
Which led it to become a marketing ploy âbuy these chinos, they are super durable and timeless!â
I have shirts I've been wearing for 15 years and are just now becoming unwearable. Including ones from walmart. durability is so overblown
i look for attention to detail when it comes to âquality,â but I honestly believe that taking care of your clothes goes a long way as far as durability⌠that is as long as itâs not shein level stuff
Yeah, this is my thinking.
Quality in fabric and construction are worth buying, but that doesn't always square with design -- especially if design is at odds with the other two
also, there is stuff that is just delicate but cannot be replaced from a design standpoint
Funnily enough I think current trends like wider fits, lots more focus on buying used/vintage PRL, Levi's, etc. as an option instead of new is much better for BIFL/quality/durability than sizing down 5 on a pair of raws that definitely don't fit you well in your normal size
Alpha Direct, Cupro, very thin Silks -- these are inherently not durable things but they're quite lovely to own and use
Like 10% of my clothes actually reach the point of breaking down. I sell them before they reach anywhere close to that point because my tastes are transient and itâs pointless to be into fashion if your taste is stagnant
The only thing i put a major emphasis on âqualityâ is probably denim but its only really because iâm a denim nerd. The practical difference between natural indigo dyed selvedge denim and some basic 501âs is negligible. It only matter if you care about details
I agree, a lot of âqualityâ clothes are ugly and or in a dated cut. I see this especially with Goodyear welted boots
This is bc shoe nerds are generally shoe nerds and not into fashion at all. I think there's a lot of very compelling designs and styles in the GYW space. It's just not Viberg SBs and any clones
Like Alden is still incredibly popular
Yah exactly these people arenât into fashion they are into boot construction. Their priorities are totally different
I think some guys also obsess over fashion purchases as a utility. They can't justify purchasing something unless it's marketed to last until the heat death of the universe.
And brands know this
accessory value function
EDC is just jewelry for guys
okay not to derail into gender talk
back to quality
"My mechanical keyboard will last longer than a membrane board. But I have 15 keyboards now and haven't used one of them longer than 6 months"
Same vibe
Toxic masculinity thread?
I always felt it was because fashion isn't considered manly so it has to have some sort of logical piece attached to it to justify the purchases. I think also that this is distinctly a millenial+ mentality. Gen Z seems to be way more interested in vibes more than anything else
Too me its actually a very interesting aspect about the vintage world where often times an item that has deteriorated becomes more desirable now that it is fucked up
be me trying on a kimono in mexico city from 1921 that costs 1.5k
Value is such a fluid object that I think that quality is a function of personal value
what is it that you value in your life that defines the quality of objects that you need
You now have guys like Edgy Albert that are talking about pocket placement on vintage Levi's compared to the modern ones for example. I think the closest MFA got to that sort of thing in the 2010s was collar roll and we still didn't get that right until like 2018 or later
Used docs always are priced so high compared to other brands
This actually goes back to the quality thing cause the made in englands are more desirable due to a perceived quality difference
The quality argument is really annoying to me sometimes as a workwear enthusiast because, like people stated above, the focus is always on durability and never on how fashionable an item is.
I donât think quality is a single factor for me, but the more I pay for something the higher quality I expect it to be whether thatâs the textiles, construction, or design. Iâm willing to accept some qc issues from Spier because their prices are so low while I expect mostly perfection from something like Drakeâs. With that being said, the more hand work that goes into something the more willing I am to accept minor flaws (looking at you, Alden).
Denim is a weird one though - I wonât pay Drakeâs prices because I donât find their denim to be particularly interesting outside the cut. But Iâm willing to pay more for denim brands that have more interesting fabrics/textures.
Denim is a weird one though - I wonât pay Drakeâs prices because I donât find their denim to be particularly interesting outside the cut. But Iâm willing to pay more for denim brands that have more interesting fabrics/textures.
But itâs also interesting because at resale stores used docs usually are priced higher than other gyw brands despite being worse quality and cheaper usually
it irritates me because "durability" is a function of what you do and marginally about the item. If your job is to jump into woodchippers maybe pants are expendable.
if your life is rubbing yourself against 600grit sandpaper there is nothing in the world that can keep your clothing intact
unless you start wearing metal pants
They have name recognition and a legacy that values them higher. Docs are iconic and made in england ones are the peak quality of them
What if my personality is very abrasive? Need some 32 oz denim to keep up
Durability feels like it's only really relevant to people that treat clothing like a tool
meanwhile Homme Plisse pieces getting hit by three drops of water:
My Homme plisse pieces are fairly durable
Compared to my Zara knockoff and the cos knockoff itâs like iron
I've written a wall of text about this before but quality can mean multiple things. Quality of materials, quality of manufacturing, and quality control are all different aspects to consider. Usually when you pay more for premium brands you do indeed get better materials and the clothes feel better and drape better. But quality control can just be luck of the draw - there are $1000 boots that never should've made it out of the factory and $5 t-shirts that will never pop a seam
Post-modern quality
I measure a garmentâs quality on how many reacts it gets in WAYWT
I'm of the view that 90% of quality complaints are people being unwilling to change their laundry habits/how they treat their clothes
If i hit highlights its 10/10 quality
based
Material and manufacturing quality are the most common advertising points I've seen for people that don't tend to care ab fashion that much
If you actually work in your clothes nothing will save them, but if you are so concerned with durability then you should be washing them on cold and airdrying them, and they will last much much longer
Cold wash hang dry everything and it will last forever
Generally these days I don't pay much attention to "quality" when making clothing purchases. I buy clothes if I like how they look, if they last me a decade that's a bonus but it's not the reason I buy something
i feel attacked
Because those people have no idea what those actually mean
say something's "American made" and you'll get people 
I mean, but do we want to require every consumer to understand the ins and outs of manufacturing?
Surely there must be some sort of middle ground
the middle ground is mall brand clothing is fine
cotton on makes the baby jesus cry
you can care about fashion in such a way that you want extra long staple cotton in your poplin shirts or the finest shell cordovan in your shoes or your sweatshirt to be made on a loopwheeled machine
also rip malls
Its also the easiest to advertise. Its really easy to be like my jacket is better cause of this stitching or that type denim.
^^^
That makes sense bc thereâs no objective stats in clothing but people still want the âbestâ for something when doing their research so they latch onto something tangible. Thread counts, stitching, fabric thickness etc when the most important thing is basically how well it fits
the main thing I've seen
it has been established that the most important thing is how many reacji u get on socials
ill say while my expensive loopwheeled hoodie is great and all, its also incredibly boring so it actually probably gets less use than if it had a graphic or something
which is also very user dependent because some people will rarely wear graphic clothing
The other thing is my most expensive clothes that I like the most and honestly probably consider the highest quality are also my most fragile
Yea my most expensive clothes are def not my highest quality
Which makes total sense when you stop thinking of quality in only terms of durability
Yeah I have a silk undershirt that needs dry cleaning if you look at it weirdly
Iâm pretty sure my gats are my most expensive shoes or my non-gyw adeiu loafers
Something made of a premium type of fabric that is fragile is quality but just in a different way
Well the funny thing is I have a 4S shirt, which people into fashion rave about their fabric quality and how interesting their textiles is, but its technically dry-clean only and I handwash it (and its noticably damaged as a result)
Definitely, but it's hard to get that sort of idea across to more "objective" buyers
Terms like heavyweight, supima and merino have functionally lost all meaning now bc people just vet everything that doesn't use those terms
"if it's this special type it must be better than the default"
Also I could care less about quality because I wash and machine dry everything basically
Oops
like the fabric is definetly an amazing textile but its incredibly fragile
Iâm not gonna min max quality whne I treat my clothes the same
So true. A late realization is that some people treat their materials like absolute garbage and complain online about quality and durability.
Itâs like those kids who grew up gripping CDs with Cheeto fists and also leave them on the ground to get scratched up, but now they buy their own clothes.
I have some plain white ts that are ring spun tube knit and definitely more fragile than a modern tee but i view them as higher quality because the cut is better and the material is visually more interesting
There's also the fact that some machines do stuff better than humans could ever do by hand
m8 the pfp!!!
so there's a case to be made that the highest quality garments are fully automated, with good QA
QC always seems like such a difficult thing to get right
the larger a brand becomes and the more they outsource it becomes increasingly difficult to do
but at the same time putting trust into a smaller brand carries its own risks
Just be like Levi's and stop caring!
Quality in designer clothes is a fallacy
Sure it tends to be better made than fast fashion stuff, but beyond a certain price point, itâs really a case of diminishing returns and youâre just paying for the name and exclusivity
Case in point: Berluti shoes are supposed to be one of the best that money can buy. A couple of months ago I noticed the sole peeling so it took them to the cobbler⌠only to learn that theyâre cemented, not Blake stitched (let alone GYW lol). So in this case, these boots are just a fashion item, not a military grade or anything like that. The sleekness of the design took priority over everything else.
At the end of the day, you have to consider designer clothes as âfashionâ items. They are not built to last forever.
military-grade in general is 
in the US where it seems like that's a badge of honor
in the US where it seems like that's a badge of honorPeople learn by using extremities đ but you get what I mean
Military grade just means the manufacturer burns through the money given by the government to deliver a subpar product
So in this case even though Berluti makes SLP prices look like Zara because theyâre basically double the price
The quality is basically the same. I would wager that the leather Berluti uses is thicker (does it mean itâs better?), but as far as construction of the actual pieces go, theyâre on the same level
Military buys shit from the lowest bidder so that should tell you all you need ti know
could've fooled me with how much they take out of
Thats so the marine corps can buy and then crash another F-35
understandable
better spend it on a plane than like what...5 insulin doses
Itâs bc a company must spend all their budget in order to get one for next year. So if Lockheed gets allocated 200 mil year one and then only spends 180 mil, they will burn the 20 mil difference in order to receive the same amount of money the next year
it might be damaged because you ignored the care instructions
wow great reading comprehension
thats what i said
I think quality means the amount of work that was taken to produce the garment, I cannot get any of my Karu shit from a mall brand bc they arenât sourcing quilts then block printing. Sure those pieces are a little more delicate but the time that was put into them is amazing
no need to be so sassy đ
Smiles ainât so smiley đ
qq, are we trying to build a definition of quality that can contain a post-modern perspective or do we think that quality has some sort of "objective" basis
I think itâs however u define it
commie
jk
Itâs in the description đ
There were a lot of messages before that I didnât read before but ummm quality and durability are not the same and thatâs all I got to say about that
which is it
Meta conversation đ
i need to consult chatgpt
what is ideal stat build for clothe
+10 strength
str build rising in meta but still niche. min max dex for tru BIFL
That trait doesnât exist in RuneScape
just define quality as whatever it takes for you to get the most use out of a piece
Really the only worthwhile metric
Honestly it does make the most sense to me to look at it from that point of view
"Quality" necessitates treating clothing as having some sort of metric of utility that you're getting out of it, but that same mentality would sound absurd for any other hobby/art form
Donât tell that to hi-fi folks
I don't think there's an objective measure for quality, but I absolutely do think there's something subjective that comes from the combo of material and construction that affects how high quality something feels.
At this point in my life, I think clothes are for me first and foremost and wearing clothes that feel high quality makes me feel good about wearing them so it is something I consider when I buy stuff.
Not neccesarily boots but aren't paraboots good year welted. But I do see what you mean if a boot is advertised for it's durability and longevity it does often lead to a more conservative design
Which brands would you look at for that?
Generally speaking I do think the quality of clothing is important up to a certain point. Of course quality is a bit of a neboulus concept . But let's just say it's material + construction.
I remember a video from the iron snail where he looked at shoes at different price points. The lowest he looked at where dress shoes from walmart for about 20 dollars if I remember correctly and those were ghastly
Iâm a big fan of a lot of the PNW designs tbh when itâs not an attempt to get plain SBs but for cheap.
The GYW/shoe nerd community also almost entirely ignores western style boots
I do think it's interesting that we tend to omit design when talking about quality
Sorry I don't know what PNW or Sb means
Oh sorry PNW is pacific north west so like Whiteâs Nickâs etc. SB is service boot
But the styles that you see more direct from those makers and brands like Clinch are way more interesting than most MTOs that boot nerds place
Like these bad bois
Paraboots are mostly Norwegian welt. They have some Blake and Blake rapid stitched models. Iâd argue that while they tend to be quite chunky, theyâre still a conservative aesthetic overall
When are you gonna show off the whole collection
I have such a soft spot for Whites. I just love their chunkier shapes and I think they kill it
Thanks those are cool
True, this type of shoe tends to be more conservative probably in part due to durability/price
Oh sorry not my boots lol just from whiteâs ig
Oh well still when we gonna see the collection
This is interesting, I almost see it as the reverse. Something that is conservative aesthetically is marketed as durable for the price because that appeals to consumers with a utilitarian mindset. That said, I donât think boring is necessarily bad. Paraboots are beloved because theyâre not ugly in a cute way and easy to style.
I think it is a bit of coloum a and a bit of coloum b. My argument is basically if something is supposed to last for a long time you don't want it to go radically off trend
Slightly outdated but I do have this post. I think the main items missing are Alden black tassels and my birkenstocks
https://burk.blog/posts/collection-2022/
Collection 2022
I havenât taken stock of my collection in a little while so since Iâve been stuck inside with COVID I took some pictures and decided to write this up about my main rotation.
Alden Ravello Indy boots from The Shoe Mart
The grails of my collection. Alden Indy boots in Ravello shell cordovan from The Shoe Mart. These frankly have the most aggres...
This is a surprisingly normal amount of shoes
I am very jealous of those ravello Indyâs. Should wear the University Loafers more! After breaking them in, theyâre one of my most comfortable shoes.
Man these look great
I'm still going to picture you owning 250 shoes/loafers/boots in my mind
Oh also missing sneakers like my vans and GATs and then all of my non-fashion shoes like running shoes and hiking boots and stuff lol but yeah I've tried to keep the rotation pretty tight. A few times I just looked at my shoe rack and realized how money money was sitting there not getting worn so I culled the herd really hard and have tried to keep it well managed since
That being said I'm eyeing some paraboots and more loafers and maybe some fun/chunky handsewns like from EG or Yuketen lmao
Honestly probably my favorite pair. I wear them all the time and they're just really really awesome boots. Ron Rider is the best. I ordered them in person years ago visiting his shop in Richmond
Thanks! The ravs are great. They're the only shoes I brought to Calgary (where I'm at rn) aside from running and hiking shoes.
I do really need to get more wear on the university loafers. They're honestly still kinda stiff lol
I think that with how thick Alden shell can be + the lining + the way Van last fits theyâre an absurdly stiff shoe at first. I was somewhat sure I missized
I got back and forth on whether I prefer the lined vs unlined shell LHS. I think the lined versions have a better silhouette and benefit from a bit more structure but unlined is stupid comfortable.
I would love to try an unlined shell one to find out haha
Too bad they only exist on eBay or the kind of meh leydon last version Frans Boone stocks.
Yeah I search regularly for a pair that isnât too beat, but Iâm not holding out hope
Iâve been looking for a backup pair for a couple years now but the prices are extortion for the condition I usually see.
"quality" can be vague. It would be helpful if reviewers specified if they mean in terms of durability, comfort, how it feels to touch, aesthetic, etc.