IDEX inconcistent nozzle alignment
Starting a thread about this issue. Posting graphs below.
Issues:
VAOC issues, nozzles doesn't go back to the saved position and during print they don't align well, offset in x, y is perfect.
Having hard time with the belts. Mainly t0 looks good but having problem getting t1 at same frequency and also the belt tension seems to vary along y.
Feels like t1 need higher tension than t0
VC4-400
68 Replies
Not sure if this has any kind of value but checked belt tension with app on different y positions.
T0/T1 on corexy belt between front tension and gantry stack
Y375
53 53
Y325
58 62
Y275
67 77
Y200
96 103
Y150
126 121
@VisualTech48 I tried now VAOC with shapers set to 0,0,0,0 - no significant change
😦
What about lower speed.l
Since its the x that seems to be drifting if I got it right, are the grub tight as it can be?
Is the nozzle the 3 screw that hold the heatbrake and the heater tight enough?
I tighten them before assembly on both.
It's both x and y in VAOC but in real life it's only been x
Something is odd with belts.. I measured the distance the tensioning holder was screwed in and they differ like 1mm for same belt tension
Shouldn't they match? I have mounted the holder in most forward position so they are aligned equally on the extrusion
I think I'm gonna take the belts out and measure them for the 100th time?
Confirmed the belts are exactly the same length
Changed the xy joiner to one with a deeper hole for extrusion. I had issues in the beginning with tube being to long
Assembled again. Gonna run some shapers and try VAOC again
Completely rerun all belts and quadruple checked length and I'm 1000% sure they are same teeth engaged now
Removed the gantry completely also
ok something happened to the graphs.. the frequencies align nicely now
checking y now
another 6-7 hours wasted on this.. better graphs but exactly the same issue
the gantry is perfectly aligned towards the back motorplates. They have exactly the same amount of engaged teeth. Graphs looks decent but the thing can't print two color without x-offset
y is and have always been perfectly aligned
beginning to give up on the idex concept
maybe I should just throw the second toolhead out and go hybrid instead
tried it, no difference
Well idex is a great addition but if you wanna go back to hybrid that's on you.
You are 100%your grubs are good on the motors?
Are you sure as well that y is tight enough? If it's not then you might have back lash and then your x precision can suffer perhaps as they need to work in tamdem.
I'll check the grubscrews again but I've already checked that. It's hard to tell about y., there's no reference tension in commissioning so I'm fumbling in the dark. All I have read is that they are expected to be more loose than you would think so that's what I did.
I can try higher tension tonight and see if there's any difference
I really want idex but tbh I'm pretty tired of this now after the last 30hrs of work gave me like zero progress. Maybe idex is too complicated for me and I'll go back to idex later when it's more mature and better commissioning available
@VisualTech48 tried the VAOC thingy with small movements in x and y but couldn't see any drift but also the movements was so small in VAOC
Hmm guess we are then in the same boat.
Do your nozzles align in the VAOC camera? For example, align T0 and then T1. If you go back to T0, is T0 aligned?
Usually it needs like 2 tries on each toolhead and then they stay synced
This is the latest shapes and the best one when looking at frequency, they are by far not the cleanest but I'll try print with this now
Finally some progress!! I needed that
Did you increase belt tension?
I'm also having issues
My nozzles never align on VAOC
Well it's all relative but in my case it looks like I over tensioned corexy and undertension hybrid belts. I'll continue tomorrow, they are not as good as I like but definitely progress. I'm gonna focus on frequency and not the shapes from now on
Work continues.. Have quite noisy y graphs now but freq similar to each other.. Still one of the squares are loose and a little misaligned.
I have tried like 100 shaper graphs last two days trying to align frequency but changing one belt like 1/10 of a turn can make the graphs go banana.. It feels like an impossible job to align them as changing one will affect all other 3
I think I'll stop for now and avoid dual color prints until we have better tools to calibrate idex. I have already put too much time on the printer last week
Gonna test tonight
I printed 2x walls @0.45mm side by side to check alignment. All extrusions along x is perfect, it's only in Y they goes out of alignment.
Let's assume black is straight for reference:
To the left on the build plate it's fine bottom and top and t1 bulging to the right in the middle, quite smooth transition.
Next line +50mm is more or less the same
Another +50mm is bulges a little more.
+50mm (middle) aligned in the middle but bulges to the right at the bottom
Same for the next two lines total +100mm
The far right one is also diverging to the right, more and more the lower it goes. BUT the skirt 20mm to the right is perfectly aligned!
Bed mesh for the print
@VisualTech48 any ideas?
Where is the front of the palte, towards you?
My idea is perhaps that Y movement moves the X just that tiny bit.
Green = front extrusions
The issue is it is extremely sensitive even I have really minor incosnistencies with it.
I assume its the belts mostly, as if they are not perfect Y>X/DC then when Y moves it could move that just slightly the X as well.
Yeah that's my thought too. Moving hybrid belts need to move x/dc in a very precise way, problably why I have perfect alignment along x as it's only one stepper doing that move and not hybrid belts.. I wonder if this is even possible to get correctly or this is as good as the motionsystem allows?
The error is not concicent either so adjusting the belts will probably only move the error somewhere else
Yeah don't blame your bed
Your bed is perfect
I think unless the belts are 100% spot on
I ran this, not sure if they make sense?
It will be diffucult, unless someone at ratrig or the IDEX god Helge, comes up with a solid solution.
Well this shows that your left belt is slightly tighter than the right one.
I'm not really sold that oyu need to touch too much really, not sure how would you gain muhc
Mirror IS
Also the Y Bel ttension is useless on the IDEX almsot
Looking decent really, but Helge might be the best to judge these belts.
My t1 y is strange
Only x peaks
But in mirror copy mode they look good
@Helge Keck do you think these graphs makes any sense when tuning?
Best one yet. This time I increased tension on hybrid belts and used ONLY belt tension graphs to align tension beginning with corexy belts with pretensioned Y belts using phone app. I gave zero fucks to IS graphs.. Just ran them afterwards to get IS figures
Can't figure out whats wrong with my y1 though.. probably the remaining part that causes them to just not stick together on one side
actually neither y is pretty but without going low on tension I can't get them to align
t0/t1 x shapers, only using for IS and zero tuning
t0/t1 y
Nice I have the 500 v4 Idex And my belts have mzv and if I tighten them a little bit just 1/8 turn then it is rubbish like 2 humps or so 😂
@VisualTech48
Ran califlower calibration. Seems like x has quite an error in dimension. Skew 0.1 degrees. Is this from belts or is frame not square?
Not sure how much 0.1* is an issue really.
I have around 0.069*
It can be both @riksarchen
But I wouldn't stres perhaps 0.1* of an angle on a 400 printer really. Could be as simple as a slight twist on the x gantry with a belt, could be the 2020 somehow could be a lot 😄
True, I'm not that concerned about it as it can be corrected with skew profile. More interested to find out why my X scale is so out when y is pretty good
Some basic knowledge of how belt drives work wouldn't hurt 🫣
I'm no expert, really, but my understanding is that the force on the X /DC actually dictates the skew, Y does it affect but not nearly as much, as its far shorter and the path is straight, while the X/DC relation is basicly zig zagging, so if you are not true on both belts you get X skew easily.
Makes sense 👍 I'll print some stuff now and go back later on to fine-tune if we get better tools to work with
Is this optic new in califlower ?
its a new iteration of the califlower, if you bought califlow previously you can update for 50% off
Ah nice where can I do this ?
Vector 3D
Califlower Calibration Tool Mk2
Califlower is the 3D printer calibration STL and calculator tool that improves your print size and skew accuracy for better print results.
Thank you
Where can I find this model?
Go into @Zzw11 slicer and add 4 primitives
Move them left and right to make the checker pattern.
🫣 Should have thought about that
I'm having this same issue, I want to fix it with VAOC, but you fixed it with belt tension?
This cannot be fixed with VAOC when the inconsistency is variable. I do still have the issue but it's smaller now. I think extreme tuning is required with perfect belt tension and build
And it's not forgiving
However I decided to tune using belt tension graphs instead of IS and I think that helped a bit
My graphs at the moment. Still a bit of work to do
I added more tension and my y are both below 1% and x is 0%
will try that