Holes in massive Infill but little overflow on top layer
Hello,
This is ABS and I have little gaps in the massive infill but also a little bit overflow in the top layer. I print with 15mm/s max flow and have a speed of 200mm/s on the infill and 100mm/s on top layer.
I am thankful for every idea or Tipp.
193 Replies
@miklschmidt hello 😁 can you help with printing too or only the software ? 😁😊
@Helge Keck maybe it is a problem that I have here 0.6 nozzle but using a 0.4 ?
No
Classic example of exceeding flow rate. You might need to print it hotter, or you need to slow down (either slower speed, less layer height/width etc, whatever you want to reduce the flow rate), and make sure you calibrate your extrusion multiplier and PA for that filament at the speeds you're actually running in practice (not some slowed down version).
1) print a temp tower
2) find max flowrate with a flowrate test
3) set slicer settings so it doesn't exceed flowrate
4) calibrate PA
You need to do this for all new filaments.
Yes I do this for every printer and for every filament
Also I slowed down to 8 max flow so 100mm/s but also no changes
I also tried to calibrate the flow while printing this print but if I set the massive layer perfect then the top layer has much overflow
what slicer are you using?
Orca and tested Prusa too
I'm asking because if you don't have extrusion issues and you've calibrated your PA, that's the only source of error left
PA does not look calibrated in your images though
But today I tested the flow again and now with a flow of 1.008 it looks good on all layers
But the odd thing is…
maybe as simple as wrong layer line widths for the different features
But that wouldn't create gaps unless he didn't adjust the layer width but just yanked up spacing
The upper one is 1.008 flow and the other 0.96 but looks really similar
thats true, but must be a slicer thing as you said
its too consistent to be hardware issue
indeed
those are both overextruded 😂
Yes a little bit but the upper one is 1 flow and the down is 0.96
Hmm i wonder if that's the issue on the top one as well, lighting is just deceiving.
No a lot
Is this ABS? Usually i need like 0.91 or less with ABS.
It’s on the picture
Yes
ABS
But with this I have issues in the massive layers
Your flow should be tuned for top layers.
So do that
(see guide)
What do you mean have more flow ?
Both of those are overextruded
You need less. Not more.
Yes
This is less
The top one have 1.008
The down one have 0.99
No that's more
That is the strange thing
No
😄
Yeah said you tried 0.96
This was yesterday
0.99 and 1.008 are both more than 0.96
I printed this at the moment
This was yesterday
All of this is too much, way too much
Try 0.90
Yes but if I go more down I got holes
A quick another question make it sense to set the microsteps to 16 ?
240 is also very low for ABS
you should be at 250-260
I have 275
It says 240 in your profile
what's the top number?
It doesn’t matter it only says min and max but it doesn’t matter
I print with 275
Weird
That's a lot.. but ok
You're still overextruding 🙂
Haha yes
What do you say
Yes but it won't change this
Okay okay then I will print now with 0.95
Yes tried this
I used the orca flow calibration
Minimum 10 tunes
Times
But if the top layer is perfect
Then the massive layers have holes
I never had some issues like here and i have 10 printers here 😁
Only say that you know I don’t do this for the first time haha
So now I did again this test
91% was the result
But with 91% I got holes
But also some layers are without holes
Flow 0.92
Flow 0.91
The 0.91 flow looks like Moore flow then the 0.92 🤯
@miklschmidt @Helge Keck
So something is wrong with my 2nd head
First layer perfect with the second then again underextrusion
Then a test printed just 6 layers 5 pcs perfect the 6th lower extrusion
I took the sock away from the nozzle and everything is full of filament I think somewhere something flows out
But what I don’t understand is why it fits in a moment and then again not like such a wobbly contact
Can you explain that somehow?
nozzle not correctly tightened
or the 3 rapido screwas are not tight and it leaks out of the heatbreak
I took the sock away from the nozzle and everything is full of filament I think somewhere something flows outWell that explains a lot 😄
Yes this must be because the z offset is 0.03
@Helge Keck checked the toolhead and everything seams okay now
But still on the second layer massive unterextrusion all over the plate and then the 3rd layer was good again
This is second
This is 3rd
The nozzle is also clean
This is the flow
Or should be
Have you checked your extruder tension?
Yes
This is with 0.96
This is with 1 flow
But here looks 1 too much
(Upper one is 0.96)
looks good 👍
Is this with 0.96 too? and what layer?
Yes second layer and first layer was good height
maybe print with a little bit more temp or less fan
Have 280 degrees for ASA
also make sure your nozzle is clean
Yes the problem is that if I calculate the filament with 50x50 cubes then 1 flow looks too much and 96 looks good
But in real it was too less
the hole of the nozzle
It is clean and I let the Silikon socked away to see if something comes where it should not haha
It’s clean too
then you cool down the nozzle with the fan
I see a problem here. The extender nut should be (hot) tightened against the heater, not the nozzle.
i see a gap
What
Don’t understand what you mean
Bad idea
Cooling will fuck up your flow without the sock
Okay know now
I will now put it back on
And start a test print again with 0.99 flow
Ah you mean this one ?
yes
stay at 0.96
Okay
So no Fan is active
This is 0.99 flow
Yes the socket is off but if no fan is active this should not matter or ?
Another thing is that I have 0.04 mm z offset between the toolheads and the screw normally is completely screwed in
0.99
1 Flow
I tried to screw it Moore in but it seems like the maximum also on toolhead 0 is the gap
really seems like you may have messed up the feature specific flow rates in your slicer
What do you mean ?
he means its not the printer its your slicer profile
But what can this cause ? Do you have ideas ?
So 100% Flow is too much in the end
Or do you have a profile for me that I can test (then I will change only temperature flow to 0.96 and pa)
Yes, if you have set different flow rates for different features..
No only for the first layer 2% Moore
100% flow is always too much for ABS
explains why your second layer is bad
Don't ever adjust flow rates on a feature basis (except for bridging). If you struggle with bed adhesion change the line width, not the flow rate.
This is ASA
My fist problem was with ABS and my result was 0.95 wich was good
Okay then I will set this to 100% check the first layer height and test again
Same
check the first layer height?
what do you mean?
If my zoffset is too far away
This is the problem I think you think or ?
Ah.. As long as you're not actually measuring the first layer with calipers and using that as an indication of anything lol.
No, i think your issue was your slicer
Okay no haha my only problem are the holes
So you mean if I set the flow for first layer to 100 then it should work ?
0.3mm first layer height. Flow 100% across the board, except for bridging.
Will test it now
Okay I think this works 🥲 don’t thought that this little first layer difference make so much difference
Thank you very very much
Now even the 96% flow looks like too much
Yeah told you it’s supposed to be like 91 😅
Sounds like it might be heading in the right direction...
Can you explain me why first and second layer is good and 3rd layer have holes in and then after infill it looks good or a little bit too much like 1% flow too much
So it didn't work?
If I go down to 95% flow I have holes in the 3rd layer
If I go with 96% then not but then the top look a like overextending
Sorry, I don't know, something is wrong with your filament, extruder, hotend and/or slicer profile.
Since it's so random like that, i really think it's a mechanical or slicing issue.
Are you using a reverse bowden like you're supposed to or are you just running the filament straight into your extruder?
It's hard to tell without seeing your slicer profile and detailed pics of the hardware (including internals).
I use a Bowden
What do you need will send you everything 😄😅
Could be something stupid like an offset extruder gear
How can I find out
:kekw:
check if the grooves are aligned
And check if the grooves are aligned with the hole/tube.
open it up
Okay will check this
This is false or ?
yep
Okay 👍
This is now 95%
This looks good
So 95% second layer
3rd layer
4th layer
This is periodic underextrusion..
From layer to layer it’s getting more worse till infill and top layers
Send me a debug zip, i'm thinking you may have messed up the current or something
Okay one minute
Or your tension is effed
or your hotend is effed
😄
It's very clear that this is not a slicer issue from that picture.
The lines reduce in size
Yes think so too 😄
Current is correct
The odd thing it’s only on the layers bevore infill
Sad 😄 this would be the easiest way
So either your tension is bottomed out or barely grabbing the filament
Or your hotend is damaged.
Can you hear it skipping?
No
There is no skipping
Not enough tension then i would assume, unless the hotend is damaged. Or you still haven't put the sock on.
Or you haven't hot tightened the nut against the heater as i mentioned earlier
My sock is back on 😄
Yes I did
Okay, so you're now down to 2 things:
Extruder tension too loose -> tighten it.
Hotend damaged, possibly heatbreak -> disassemble the hotend and inspect all the parts, particularly the heatbreak.
Okay I will print the same file everything same with head number one
My tension should be good
how do you know?
I tried to pull it out but I can’t only if the extruder is spinning
And you're sure it's not too tight?
I don’t really now
I think it is not too tight but it’s just what I think
You should calibrate it by starting loose, then tighten slowly until you can't pull it out when the motor is engaged and extruding.
How does this look for you ?
like a nozzle that isn't properly hot tightened
and way too much tension
Now the nozzle is at 270 degrees i will loosen it and screw back in again
And then I will bring the filament in like you said (or the tension)
The extender nut, is it just a nut or does it have an M6 thread like a nozzle?
If it's just a nut (ie, you're using volcano nozzles), screw it down towards the tip nozzle -> hot tighten nozzle, then hot tighten nut against the heater.
If it has an M6 thread, first hottighten the extender, then hot tighten the nozzle.
What do I have ?😁
I literally can't tell when it's assembled.. (plus that is not hot tightened...)
Okay wait
you have filament leaking out
Are you using V6 or Volcano nozzles?
V6 = short, Volcano = long
V6
Okay so:
first hot tighten the extender, then hot tighten the nozzle.
Okay
That nozzle thread is covered in plastic
You gotta clean all that off
Plus inside the adapter
I will also take a new one
How can I do this
(Will do this tomorrow and take both new
Heat it up to ~100-150 ish, then try and peel it off with tweezers as much as possible
When tightening these you need to use ~2Nm force.
Okay
Okay
It’s now in
And now the new nozzle
How much nm for the nozzle
doesn't look right, looks the same as before, but the threads were clean so i guess it's good enough.
same
And it's heated to 270 degrees here? When you tighten it?
Okay back in Both with 2Nm
Yes
Aight 👍
then try again
Now the filament
If there's still holes, time to disassemble the hotend
Yes will now check the tension then will make a test print again
So filament in and pull out while thigten
Till the extruder is spinning or ?
Now I have 0.5mm less tension (the length of the screw which is outside bevore 10.5 now 11mm)
Will start the test now
@miklschmidt so nothing changed
Time to tear down the hotend and find the problem.
Here I go down with speed to 3mm/s cubic
But also the holes
Yeah your hotend is broken
Or your extruder, but we already ruled out the common extruder issues.
Okay at the hot end what can be broken here ?
I will test now toolhead number one with same file
your heat break
Or your missing the PTFE tube between the extruder and hotend
etc etc.. things like that
Start disassembling
Okay print now with toolhead 0 and if this works then yes if it don’t works too then I have to disassemble both 🙃
Okay same on toolhead 0
Well that makes me question everything
Okay I don’t know what I can do now …
Haha