still cant get first layers to be consistent
i'm at my wits end with this printer. im 10 days in and still dont have a first print done. i've been tryin to get my first layer issues sorted out. multiple beacon calibrations later, i'm still getting inconsistencies and non-sticking portions of prints. it's not the build plate, it's clean. the printer is not putting the plastic down close enough to the bed to smush on the external walls, it's constantly all over the place. it's exceedingly frustrating. this printer was supposed to be up and making molds a week ago. i need help
Solution:Jump to solution
The only conclusion I came to was "maybe my x-rail was not mounted correctly or something"
468 Replies
What is the nozzle size? Does it agree with what you have in the slicer?
.6, yes
thought it was my pla profile, so switched to petg to use ratrig profile, same issue unfortunately
Have you updated in the machine tab lately?
Says I'm up to date
Ok. So post your printer.cfg
Ok, nothing wacky. So hers what I'd do,
Run the configurator, and let it wipe out the printer.cf, then delete all the save config stuff at the bottom
Only add back in the bare minimum, like motor direction. Just what in needs to work, nothing else
Rerun beacon_ratos_calibrate
Then try the first layer stl again
That's what happens is the first layer STL always comes out fine it's subsequent prints after that that are the problem
I get one good first layer per calibration
Ok. Have you tried printing the first layer stl then turning it off. Then printing again after rebooting?
Then you'll know if it's a setting getting lost or not
I can try
Getting a different error makes all the difference. Means progress. A lot of people get discouraged by another error. It's all mindset.
so i cleared my config agaign tos tart from scratch and nwo can't get ratos to calibrate again. something is seriously wrong when it does the poke test with a 150c hotend + warmed bed in the middle of the calibration. every time it does the poke test, it varies by .03, within variance amounts, so it fails the poke test. almost like the z motors are skipping the same amount of steps, when the hotend is at a specific temp, in the middle of calibration. wth?
problem doesnt occur when the hot end is at 250c during the calibration
250C +85 c bed
150C + 85C bed
2nd poke test 250C +85C bed
No clue what this means
failed at this part of the contact mesh, same thing as before, huge range between the pokes, but compared to each other within variance, almost like the z motors are moving the incorrect amount of length on the moves
it's literally tapping the same place and nothing is happening, how does it vary this much?
it's not an issue with filament I had a great cold pull right before I started doing this process all over again
Haven't touched the printer since this failed calibration, just ran a homing and z-tilt, and had to have adjustments made.
what does this mean? something wrong with my z-steps?
failed again
this is making me profoundly depressed. i have a $150 monoprice mini select from 2016 that still lays down perfect first layers even when i dont touch it for months. But my $3,000 vcore 4 still not calibrating and printing after 12 days. i feel like im going wacko. why is this so difficult
Check your Z for excessive backlash.. Looks like you have any kind of hardware issues
please explain
Check the thrust bearings and check that they are installed correctly
unless the guide is wrong, they are installed correctly
Guide is correct. Have you double checked?
the lead screw constraints, yes?
They are not upside down? Did you press the coupler towards the thrustbearing when tighten it?
Om talking about the the bearing between motor and coupler
Yes
Confident about this, and there is the gap between the motor shaft and the screw
Double check all three if you haven't done them even if you're confident
Your mesh is good and doesn't show any signs of gantry twist but your values do so something is not correct. Since the mesh is done without Z movement I'm thinking you have issues on Z
Is the coupler supposed to align with the flat part of the motor shaft somehow
I don't remember that in the guide
All I remember is is it saying to tighten the coupler while pressing down on it
i took them all off and aligned the line of the coupler with the flat part of the motor shaft, and the screws are in so tight that im afraid ill strip them, so going to try again...
the thrust washers all stuck to the bottom of the coupler when i took them off the motor shaft, so i dont think that was it
am i reading this right? it failed with over a full mm in variance?
ran a z-tilt immediately after, and it had to make an adjustment. sigh.....
i dont understand.
@Helge Keck I don't know enough about Beacon to help - but this looks like something specific to how the beacon works. Can you help or point to documentation?
die u calibarate the beacon ?
did
im on about my 15th run of deleting my cfgs and starting from scratch
i've had 2 "successful" beacon ratos calibrates over the last 12 days, i get one good first layer, then concurrent runs go to shite
i was facing the same problems, me than runs every singel step manually
now its fine
as far as i can tell, no hardware problems, everything is tight, mesh looks great, belts look great
is ratos up to date?
yes i've been on the latest every time
the ratos dev team has been making many updates - so according to the update manager everything is up to date?
my beacon has great latency when it's cold (1-2 when 19-20C), but then when it gets hot (40-50C) the latency gets up to 4-6, i dont know if that's normal or not
this points to mechanical issues
you need to double check the whole z-motion system
thats what mikel said too but im not sure what could be the issue, everything is so tight if i go tighter ill strip the screws
leadscrew couplers, oldham mounting, nozzle, the 3 rapido screws, the top alu plate carriage screws, the 3 ball screws from the bed, ......
mechanical issues is the only explanation when the you have repeatability problems
not possible bad motor/stepper driver?
these are on/off things right they either work or they dont
you have partly deviations of over 0.12mm, there is absically no toher way than mechanical issues
thats definitly not electronics or software
ok
check every screws that is related to z
i guess i can try re-doing all the steps from the z assembly, something must be loose somewhere
maybe the poms
all of this is possible
somewhere oyu have a loose connection
My rear Z screw is not straight I can visibly see it wobble
Is that something that could be it?
Both the front arms do this they can move up and down a little bit The rear Z does not do this at all
Is that supposed to happen or?
i've got everything as tight as im comfortable without breaking something
trying again...
sigh
Would be interesting to see a standard mesh vs a mesh made by beacon contact so you have Z movements
The slack in vertical direction is expected and not an issue. Gravity is your friend here 🙂
Probably not the cause here, but I had a similar issue when my bed had tiny bit of plastic at the home position. Perhaps try moving the build plate a few mm and see whether the variance continues?
bed looks super clean, so i dont think that's it, but i appreciate the suggeestion
i'm not sure what else to tighten, i've got my torque screwdriver maxed out (30 nm) on every screw related to the Z unless im supposed to be making these pillow blocks deform.
Oh, and the screws that hold the printed parts to the rails. im afraid ill break those cause it feels like i'm deforming the plastic
This is the only think I think it could be. The lead screws are not fully inside top of the holders, they are slightly recessed. I can raise them up another 10mm comfortably.
Going from this
To this
oh. my rear z pom insert wasnt screwed in all the way too. maybe that was it
who knows, trying to calibrate again now.....
Just to verify, the bearings are under the couplers? Also did you grease those bearings?
failed again, nothing else i can tighten on the z assembly, and the toolhead is also as tight as i can get it without disassembling the whole thing
and yes, the thrust bearings are under the couplers, and I silicone greased them yes
mg chemicals silicone grease
the only possible thing i can think that is happening is the lead screws are slipping down inside the coupler, and i need to make some sort of insert, but i dont have anyting that's non-compressable to put in there
i guess i could put some small washers in there.
i greased the lead screws (when i first assembled, they were squeaking bad), squeaking went away, but when i undid the couplers, i can see some grease inside the coupler
so if the metal is not deforming and is holding with friction only, they might be slightly slipping
Def something mechanical to make it change that much on just a small z move
i just have no clue what else to tighten, if i tighten anything else the screws or parts are going to break, the only thing i can think of is something slipping
i rounded off one of my 2.5mm allenkeys tightening things
i mean they are cranked
Yeah, what I circled is it not going back up the sane amount as it goes down.
yeah
The screw can be tight but that doesn't mean it's clamping tight.
it would take a lot of calibrations for the lead screws to bottom out, but the guide says "don't let them touch the motor shaft"
imma take off the couplers and put some washers in the big part where the lead screw goes
and let them bottom out on those
so they can't drop further
Taking the couplers out is a good idea
Put something in the slot, then put on motor, the put in lead screw , then remove the spacer. That should give enough clearance
gotta find something thin enough
Some scraped first layers should work :kekw:
So i'm hoping this will solve it.
1. I'm printing a PC material key for the z motor shafts to go into the coupler, to lock their rotation with the coupler.
2. I'm printing a TPU washer to allow the lead screws to bottom out in the coupler while removing them from the vibrations of the motor, which is why I assume they say "don't let the lead screw touch the motor shaft".
ok well the z-tilts arent' changing much after cleaning and reseating the pei sheet and doing a few of them
no having to re-do tolerance
so here is hoping
nope.
the couplers are bottomed out on the tpu mounts i made, the lead screws can't go any farther down
so i guess i must try to do something with the toolhead then
TPU mounts?
i made these to put in between the motor shaft and the bottom of the lead screws, so instead of them "floating" (and slipping down when doing poke tests, which I thought was my problem), they physically cannot go down further
but it didnt solve it
what do you mean with slipping down?
I thought that because my lead screws were greased, they were slipping in the coupler, leading to my failed poke tests and the large variations pointed out in this
unfortunately it seems my problem lies elsewhere
the big variations only happen when the bed is at 85 C, idk if that tells you anything
could also be the ssr
how so
my bed temp is surprisingly stable, it's rock solid when set to 85 at 85.2-85.3, doesn't vary beyond that
ok, i see. hmm. ok let me try
connection error....hmm, i have to port forward for this tool to work?
unfortunately this tool isn't letting me connect to my ratos, even when run from source locally
30!? You're over tighten deluxe
well originally i wa being told "something is loose", soooo
It doesn't mean you should torque the screws until thread stripes
they're not stripped, they're just really tight
It means you should check if everything is correctly mounted and no loose screws
im on day 13 trying to fix this, and people told me "something is loose", when i repeatedly said "im confident everything is tightened properly", what would you have done?
Sorry but you can't just torque as much as you can. There's specs for this purpose
this is great, this is what i followed before people started telling me "something is loose" and i currently have a 3,000 dollar bricked 3d printer
you can't say you wouldn't be frustrated too
you would tighten things
Take a break if you are frustrated. You won't solve anything in affect
Leave for a couple of weeks and get back when you're ready
i cannot do that, this printer was supposed to be up and making molds when it was finished
currently, it's wasting my time
i can't afford a 50k strasys
focused on fixing this issue
Sorry to hear that but there is no shortcut here.. You need to inspect or rebuild the whole Z motion if you can't find anything obvious... Everything points to mechanical issues.. Something is not right
Or what is your thoughts?
i did rebuild the z motion
Bad design from rat rig?
right now, helge thinks something wrong with my beacon and ssr noise
since the issue happens when the bed is heated
i said it can also be the ssr, we had already that case
well, whatever the case, im working on that
SSR is cheap and easy to replace. I would begin there
Still i think it would be interesting to see how your cold bed mesh look like when using beacon contact instead of scan
Then you are moving Z but SSR is not involved
Compare scan and contact with SSR off
It's a simple variable
i've got that posted back from when i first set up
Contact too?
no, don't have that, keeps failing
but havent tried a cold one
Where you create a mesh using contact instead of scan
Try a cold one
Run a normal mesh (scan). Then a mesh using contact
Compare those two
this was the mesh i got when i originally set it up
Run a fresh mesh
with the help of visualtech
So you have the exact same conditions
cold scan
still getting contact mesh failures on poke tests with the ssr almost off completely, with bed_temp set to 20
state is less than 4% constantly, it's cold out here in my shop
@Helge Keck what am i supposed to be looking for here? also, i restarted the beacon poke test at 1 min in to show what the other user showed mikkel
Why not set temp to 0 so the SSR stays off
if you do that, doesn't it "wait for temp" to get close to the set point?
i suppose i can try
yes, like i thought, you can't do taht
i could try 15
that did work, but it's just at 0%
it's still on
seems to be on a roll with the SSR at 0%, lots of consistent numbers, some even duplicates
not perfect but
it got stuck for a bit
now it's continued
anything looks wonky with tis?
Just trying to pitch in (I did not read the whole thread). did you rule out flex in the hotend assembly? loose nozzle, Loose UHF spacer (in case of rapido UHF)? I strugled a while with a PTFE tube between hotend and extruder (in EVA toolhead) such that the hotende rested on the PTFE tube and not on the much harder plastic that the hotend mounts to on the Toolhead (if above makes any sence)
i tightened the hotend according to rapido instructions, but beyond that, that's about all i've messed with
uhf spacer....the extended nut that you put the nozzle into?
Yep,.. don''t know the official name
i mean, i did it according to the instructions, 280c and i think 1.5 or 2.5 nM of torque
so it should be correct
cant remember the torque number but i did that
should be ok. What about the PTFE tube?
the one inside the extruder and hotend?
its the one that was provided with the kit
i took the whole toolhead apart to tighten everything per instructions, so it should be correct, but at this point, i dont know
trying to rule out the SSR noise thing
almost done with this contact mesh
they seem...similar? but the variance is way more with the contact
not sure what to be looking for here
gonna go lay down, been working on this for 9 hours at this point
A big difference between contact and scan could indicate Z issues as mesh doesn't do any Z movements and contact does at each point
Contact z issues/variance can also be filament oozing
Disconnect the control wire going to the SSR will always disable the SSR.
redid all the linear rails and re-squared the frame this morning, failed again with interestingly similar poke variances, crazy how it gets the first poke done, then the second one is out of variance, so it re-tries and gets very similar numbers. i went and checked where it failed and it was the same location on X where it has failed in the past, and those screws on the linear rail seemed loose, so i tightened them, before the toolhead when moved manually almost seemed like it "slipped" when it went across that area, there was much less resistance compared to the rest of the rail, after tightening the 2 screws close to that location the x rail it seems to have similar resistance to the rest of the x gantry, so trying again
it completed
now ill try a first layer again
It looks practically perfect, no z adjusting needed
Time to try a second one
Why doesn't it do a wipe or something before adjusting z-tilt? I can clearly see it messing up the Z tilt on some leftover filament
I cleaned the nozzle and restarted the print
Looking good
Second one looks good
That didn't work
But this is filament related
So something was loose after all? :kekw:
I have no idea at this point
Solution
The only conclusion I came to was "maybe my x-rail was not mounted correctly or something"
I had already loosened and retightened it several times before this
Glad it's working.
same, but running another first layer test after not touching it for a bit to make sure
Seems good so I'm going to tackle filament tuning and a calibration cube later
Mark this one as solved 🎊
Yay! 🙏
Yeah so, this is not fixed.
I started having issues again last night, and now i can't get a good first layer again. Having to start over from scratch again. Printer just forgets settings or something. Z-offset is constantly changing.
I am jealous of anyone that built their printer and got it printing in less than a few hours or whatever. I'm 15 days deep and regretting my purchase.
Can't print anything.
Spent all day yesterday trying to get decent prints out, bunch of filament bs, now I'm back to bad first layers.
From your previous pictures it looks like you're having a bunch of problems and misattributing them to beacon / first layer issues.
this is not just "filament related issues".
that is severely borked.
I've honestly never had problem like this ever, before my X1C, I had a taz 6, before that a MP select pro, and before that a ender. I've got no clue where to get started.
I've never had any issues like what's going on here with my v4
All printers where you haven't had to deal with wiring or the low level details of your setup
Yeah
I feel like I probably made a mistake trying to buy all the "upgrades" out of the box, I just thought it was more plug and play than this. 48V and filament sensor, or whatever.
This could be missing (or not properly sized) PTFE tube between extruder and hotend, bad extruder tension, completely borked PA settings, wrong thermistor configuration, bigger nozzle than sliced for etc etc.
Is your nozzle properly hot tightened? Have you checked if there are any leaks from the hotend etc?
The PTFE is the one that was provided, i've got the 2.5mm ptfe from the kit, i've not done anything with PA, i'm pretty sure my thermistor is set up correctly (i followed the guide), and my nozzle is set to 0.6 in both the slicer and firmware
the only thing i'm not "sure" about is the ratos setup defaults to CHT nozzle when you select the .6, and im pretty sure it's a "regular" nozzle, with one hole, not 3
my cold pulls look perfect, so i dont think it's a nozzle issue or leaks
That latency concerns me too, that's atypical for a v-core, which may indicate z-motion issues and/or electrical problems however i can't be much more specific than that.
I don't mean the ID/OD of your reverse bowden, i mean the length of it between the hotend and the extruder. It should fit very snuggly in there and you should chamfer the ends.
The piece between your extruder and hotend should NOT be a 2.5mm ID tube
The one with the kit is what i used
It's should be 1.9 or 2mm.
it didnt have to be cut or anything
That's most likely a huge part of your problem.
If you used the wrong tube
?
there was a small one in the toolhead bag
Ok so you used the separate pre-cut piece that goes between the orbiter and the rapido?
yeah
this precut pieces are sometimes a tiny bit to short
Good, sounded like you used the 2.5mm ID one for a second 😄
It's prolly worth checking yeah.
You shouldn't even be looking at your first layer when you have extrusion consistency like this: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1291715677295611955/1293028136379875358/20241007_185141.jpg?ex=6709d64b&is=670884cb&hm=fed751dce3fb72ea757b1206dc0a4d2c23591b3b0035967b1bc81fc500b6cb0b&
if you put the extruder on top of the ptfe tube, there shoul dstill be a o.5mm gap between extruder and top plate, this makes sure the ptfe tube isnt too short
a tiny bit of comrpession is fine and desired
i feel like im chasing ghosts, even though i followed the guide to the letter, even down to the provided torque chart, this is very depressing.
i used this small tube that was in the toolhead kit
i will have to do that hotend soak that mikkel suggested, can't get ratos to calibrate again....
doing this again....
it isn't chasing ghosts, you are just becoming aware of all the various causes of things. To use a bad car analogy - you are used to a honda civic, and you just bought a ferrari and putting it together yourself.
i just want a printer that prints and it's really depressing that despite following the guide, my printer doesnt print for over 2 weeks now.
it's never printed
anyways.
i'm going to try and heat soak and then ratos calibrate and see if i can get decent first layers again....
Just wait till you find the cause and it turns out to be some silly stupid mistake. This is part of the DIY experience.
like why does my z-tilt always need to be adjusted, is that normal?
What do you mean by "always need to be adjusted" exactly?
because after a print the steppers are turned off, thus losing their position. That's why each print you need to redo z-tilt. It is normal
it always runs, and yes that is on purpose. When the motors power off they lose positioning and default to the closest full step position.
That's how steppers work
ok
gotta get my kid ready for school....have to come back to this.... going to try and ratos calibrate with the heat soak in the meantime....
I'm pretty sure you're chasing the wrong rabbit here. This symptom of the first sample being way off from the second is pretty common though, so much so that there's often a "SAMPLES_DROP" option to discard the first (or more) samples when probing.
how do i turn that on
That's news to me.. It should not change your nozzle type when you change the nozzle diameter. I would also STRONGLY recommend you start with a 0.4mm nozzle.
0.6mm are harder to tune, and much easier to fuck up as everything defaults to 0.4 (slicers, guides etc).
it shouldn't be necessary at the speeds the calibration runs at. You can't "turn it on" without modifying the macros.
Also @Rewire have you updated all the packages?
Can't find any message from you about software updates.
Yes, always am on the latest versions, first thing I do before I start doing anything with the printer every day
only reason i wanted to do 0.6 was to get larger prints out faster
higher layer heights and all that, i bought this to make large molds, so i'll have to post-process them anyways
yep, i need to step away from this for a bit before i get upset again
ill come back and mess with it later
This is just super random and not a "first sample is off" thing.
Z axis looks unreliable
Perfectly valid, however it'll be much easier to swap in a 0.6 once you've got everything working properly.
Not sure how to fix short of replacing all the Z axis parts, none of them are loose, I know cause I've gone over them about 20 times now
My rails were like butter so I don't think that's it
Some of my lead screws are visibly wobbly but the sliding screw (old man hands?) inserts should fix that right
How wobbly?
I'll see if I can get a video when I get home
You're sure it's not just a dirty nozzle or oozing? Nozzle that needs to be hottightened? something like that? Is there any play in your hotend assembly?
no filament in the nozzle, always do a cold pull before trying calibration
it was doing this long before i ever got filament in the machine
it might be the x carriage, but
i dont know how to test that
there's no loose screws, that im confident of
Just noticed the gantry here, i can pretty much guarantee you'd get better results with a 2020. It looks like it has the rigidity of a wet noodle.
If you grab the nozzle and give it a wiggle (up/down side to side etc), is there any play?
it's the spannsystems, i thought that might be it, but
let me try wiggling the nozzle
ok....it's somthing with the toolhead or the toolhead carriage
side to side nothing, but up down, it's moving a bit, but if i put my hand on the gantry, that's not moving
so it's the carriage or something related to that
At least something to look into!
but i can't fix that besides replacing the carriage, right?
i mean, i have the extra one meant for idex....
You don't even know what's moving yet
If you want my recommendation, remove the flimsy tube, put the 2020 in
This could easily be a case of premature modding, and that design from spannsysteme is one of the worse ones i've seen
All rigidity lost
I can try swapping it out
wanna see if there's something up with the carriage first, will have to look later tonight
Why would you even use the spannsystem tube. What's the benifits? Ti tube fine but that tube still in alu makes no sense at all, I'm all with mikl, remove that tube.
People do it to lose weight, because they believe it'll make their input shaper numbers go up, which it does by a couple hundred points, but it also results in significantly worse print quality because it's so flimsy. They can be a very decent upgrade if done right (no loss of rigidity and tortional stiffness), but it's a minimal gain. Get a poorly designed tube like this one (sorry if i'm offending anyone, but i'm tired of these, it's lazy and a bit of a money grab) and it's a straight downgrade. The Toro TI tube is pretty sweet, i agree.
imo the little inout shaper gain you get from such tubes isnt worth the money at all. barely noticeable in daily printing. only helpful if you want to push the printer to the absolute limit
People need to understand that max recommended accel != max accel.
yep
if there would be a graph that shows money per performance, nothing will ever beat a cheap alu extrusion
but i can understand why people are trying it, modding a printer is fun
100%
first printer like this, thought the mod would amp up my speeds, but it's redundant if i can't even print in the frist place lol
gonna see if the carriage is the issue, but probably going to take it out and return it
same reason i went for 48V and had to buy new power supplies, speed, but then that led to software issues helge helped me sort out
plus the mirrored stepper driver plug issue
it does ramp up your max accel a tiny bit, but thats only for the outer perimeters, for the rest of the print you can go full blast anyway. so the final print time doesnt really change
at this point, i just want a print, at all lol
we will get to it
i know its anyoing at the beginning
but wou will learn a lot until the printer prints the firs ttime
i doubt its the carriage, im pretty sure its the gantry
just so people dont htink im crazy about the extrusion issue i had
With filament
well it's not the carriage, that thing is solid....
mentally preparing myself to disassemble this x gantry and re assemble it....
if i end up still having issues after this i might go wacko
please show me the other side of the ptfe tube, one side should be chamfered, if it is then you have put it in the wrong way
the other side seems sharp
but let me take it out
gotta take off the extruder again, just put it back on
idk if ratrig chamfers them
if its not chamfered you should do it for the side where the extruder sits
The other side is clean cut
Turned it around for this photo My hands aren't still enough
also check, if you put the extruder onto the ptfe tube if there is still a tiny gap between extruder and top plate
This is the side that I've had towards the extruder It doesn't really look any different other than being a little bit roughed up from being shoved in and out of the extruder
Sorry I'm a little bit confused on what you mean by this
It sits flush against the tool head plate
The way I've done it is I push the PTFE tube all the way down into the hot end and then put the extruder on top of it
this could probably mean that the ptfe tube can be too short
when putting the extruder on top of the ptfe tube, there shoul dbe a izzy bizzy tiny gap between extruder and top plate, like 0.3 mm or so
this ensures that the ptfe tbe isnt too short
This is it pushed all the way down
This is before screwing in the extruder
do yu have spare ptfe tube with 2mm ID?
if not get a peice
No, unfortunately
All the PTFE I have is 2.5 ID
i suggest you are buying spare belts, spare ptfe tube and probably some spare bearings
I think...
when using such a printer you shul dhave that stuff available at any time
ptfe tube do wear out, belts as well, and bearings as well
Wait
Maybe I do
thats it
I bought these a while ago when I was making y splitters for my X1Cs
Well I can replace that later for now let me try and swap out this x Gantry and see what that does
One problem at a time
Hmm.
I mean I don't think oil would let it slide around would it
No
Or maybe that's grease
thats fine
just dont lick it up
dont worry ill stick to the windows for licking
It's pretty wobbly once you undo the linear rail from it
I mean I'm not using a ton of force there maybe like five nm or so
as Mikel said, rigidity of a wet noodle
im going to try one last thing before i put myself in the position of having to re-do all my belts and take apart this x gantry joiner
putting m3 washers in the linear rail to prevent it from moving back and forth when it's tightened down
nvm, they are too large
Seriously, just change that tube. That's insanely wobbly.. Imagine how gantry will look when toolhead is working in Y direction with high accels.
48V is a worthwhile straight upgrade with no downsides though! All it does is double your max velocity at full torque however, but that's really nice for travel moves.
I feel this, been there so many times 😂
I think I'm going to take my bed off before I end up damaging something on that
oh right....the wires at the back
ugh
snippers....
After you solved this issues you will know your printer well 😁👊
put a towel on top
want to avoid any possible damage. going to put it on carboard to the side
this isnt working, moving to a big blanket
Halfway
🙏
Honestly not a torture I would wish even on my worst enemy
Ok let me re do my belts and bed mesh
sigh 🤦
well i got this
But then realized I did this
was wondering why i had to tighten my lower so much
What am I missing?
Ahh, I see now
yep
pulled a switcharoo on myself
I feel you man
easy fix tho for this one
Yeah
couple bolts and screws
Om surprised you got so clean IS 😅
ik thats what i was thinkin
but not going to run with it
Nah it will be a lot of issues 😂
ok ok
Huh that's strange. Did you do belt tension before attaching hybrid belts?
yeah, the 2 peaks is weird
its not weird
you need to harmonize the y and x peak
on IS?
yes, the swingf atm with diff frequencies
by changing hte tenions you can bring them to the same drequency
acatually, sorry
not correct
havin two peaks can be normal in this case
just use these values
they are not bad
you can fine tune them later if you want
Isn't the hybrid belts too lose?
these values are already good, let him print first a bit
no need to chase perfection at this point
True
Feels like all "Z issues" will actually be this custom tube with zero rigdity
Will be interesting to see beacon results now
the contact mesh seems to be going fine so far
did still have some sample exceeds tolerance earlier but still completed fine
🤞
Seems to have completed
I will have to try a first layer test later
well, thats an improvement
nice
Software has premature optimization, 3d printers have premature upgrades 😄
got a first layer down, now time to try another
got some time to work on it
printer has amnesia again 😢
sigh
7th try doing a first layer after that first one, already nuked my beacon cfg once, cant get anything to stick
trying with scan compenssation turned off
wait
what do you meant you cant get it to stick?
this can jsut mean that your filament doesnt stick to the build plate
the nozzle is persistently too hight
doesnt necessarily mean you have first layer issues
i set a lower offset, it forgets it the next print
please share your prtiner.cfg
using SAVE_Z_OFFSET does nothing
and the ratos.varibale.cfg
please shar ethe console output after you run save_z_offset
[Variables]
idex_applied_offset = 1
idex_xcontrolpoint = 213
idex_xoffset = 0.0
idex_ycontrolpoint = 532
idex_yoffset = 0.0
idex_zcontrolpoint = 10
idex_zoffset = 0.0
idex_zoffsetcontrolpoint = 0
nozzle_expansion_applied_offset = 0
nozzle_expansion_coefficient_multiplier = 0.07482993197096552
nozzle_expansion_coefficient_t0 = 0.06281249999548599
nozzle_expansion_coefficient_t1 = 0.06
t0_filament = ('', '', 0)
aha
but after saving that, then running a new print, it went back to .004
you do not run save_z_offset
you jsut click the save button, tahts wrong
no i did before this,
this was jus thte last try
you need to run `SAVE_Z_OFFSET´ in the console
then show me the correct console output
right i know i saw when you told that to the other guy ive been doing that
i turned off beacon scan compensation and now it's fine, it seems
you let now fight the temp offset compensation against the offset you have configured
you are basically using two methods at the ssme time
set this to 0
then rerun the first layer and run SAVE_Z_OFFSET
do not use the save button on the ui
Trying a second now, this one worked after setting scan compensation to false
you messed the config already up
you are using two different methods at the same time
you need to decide if you want to use the temperature offset compensation or not
you have basically two offset methods that work together, thats very difficult to handle, if it all
so delete, and do one or the other
i recommend to set the vlaue to zero
in the image i jsut shared
then retuning the first layer with the SAVE_Z_OFFSET
and using purely the temp compensation
i also suggest to turn heat soaking on
one sec
i have tht commented out currently
no wonder it doesnt work
hotend heat soaking is key
bed heat soaiking technically as well, especially if you print in heated chambers
Only really having issues at the beginning and ending of lines now
good, now run SAVE_Z_OFFSET
and share the console output please
i recommend to clean the build plate with dish soap and hot water with a sponge
thats sometimes neede for new build paltes
this looks very good
also, how fast do you print the first layer and at which temp?
225, PLA, 50mm/s
additionaly you can try to raise the temp only for the first layer to 230 for example
and maybe reduce the first layer speed to 30 for the perimeter
About that little booger on the end, is there a way to retract and quick move to avoid blobbing?
its just at the start and end of lines that it's almost like it's not pushing out enough at the start of a line
i have retraction turned off
PLA and textured plates do not harmonize always very well
i have some petg i can put
try to clean the plate first before continueing
i can clean it again, i did do a dish soap wash when i first got it, then only scraper, gloves or ipa since
oh, then you can skip that
if you have some adhesive issues jsut try to print the first layer slower and a tiny bit hotter
thats not a z offset issue
i have been printing for a very long time, i know all the good practices, thats why this experience has been so frustrating
just never built my own
well, filaments and buildplates do not harmonize always perfectly
i could put glue down but
this jsut looks like a filament tuning issue now
i know that would fix it
trying to avoid that for this printer though
slower and hotter
i found this, would like to add it, instead of skirts https://github.com/kyleisah/Klipper-Adaptive-Meshing-Purging
GitHub
GitHub - kyleisah/Klipper-Adaptive-Meshing-Purging: A unique leveli...
A unique leveling solution for Klipper-enabled 3D printers! - kyleisah/Klipper-Adaptive-Meshing-Purging
ratos has this built in already
oh does it?
i thought the primeblob was it
trust me, the primeblob is superior, especially with the heat soaking time
it cleans the nozzle and you wont get any ozzing issues
right but it does it so far from the print
however, the prime blob is not the issue here
raise your travel speed
you have a fast printer now
you can easily use 500mm/s or 800mm/s travel speed
with high accels
48v + hybrid so i should be doing like the 22k my input shaper says
no, the inout shaper does nto limit your accel
its jsut the max speed for outer perimeters before you get ringin
you can go full blast for travel moves and infill
oh well idk what full blast is lol
a lot
:kekw:
this is what i have it set to right now
well, these are not the filament settings, jsut the printer limitations
with 48v you can go much faster than that
jsut set the travel speed to 500 for the start
you can raise it later
oh it was already set to 500
and reduce the first layer speed for pla to 30
default profiles have that
trust me, you are close to printing now
default profiles are conservative
after you get a bit familiar with the printer you can raise all the speeds and accels
Messed up the skirt but the print seems good
as i said, PLA and textured paltes can be difficult sometimes
Yea 👍
but i think you can run now some test prints
Just want to try and get a benchy out
and see your baby printing
also, im a big dimafix fan
once applied everything sticks to the plate, no matter whcih type of filament
and it doesnt leave any marks on the prints
dimafix....ill have to look it up
i have my own solution that's water soluable, just havent gotten around to patent/manufacturing it.....it works really well but the residue on the build plate is ugly
yeah, used simialr stuff earlier in the days
you can refresh it with water and reuse it, which is cool
dimafix is jsut superior to such things, invisible, one can lastrs a year at least, and releases the print when cooling down
i apply it once in a month or so
so easy to use
Sad, fell off the plate
Let me put some stuff down
yeah, adhession issues
not related to the printer itself or the z offset
Yea
What's your cooling settings?
did you tried to reduce the first layer speed?
Yeah this is with 30
I put my mix down, trying again
Bed temp?
60
My mix fixed the skirt lifting
at least the zoffset seems to eb stable now
beacon noise has been fixed as well
Right yeah
i see light on the horizon for you
Gonna return the spannsystems
Just no good
Yeah that's probably your main issue
Try 65c bed.. I think I'm running 68 on my pla
Zoop
Lemme try 68
dude, jsut try PETG
:kekw:
this will stick for sure
Ok ok lol
and get a can of dimafix, trust me
still need to set up my sensor button to do unload
Ugh
well, that profile needs tuning
yeah
but i tihnk its safe to say your issues are solved
you could mark the thread as solved
I think it already is, but I came back to it
There should be a warning about using those tube's on a vc4 😩
Lowered flow to .95, increased my temp by 20c (lol), and bed by 5c
Ok so far
nice
this is also the correct color for the first benchy
Yes
The black rr plate can love petg a little too much.
yay
Bunch of vfa though
Happy I got a print
I'll sort this out later
Nice
👊
on 48V like 2000 mm/s at 20k.
tbf i've been quite loud warning about these bad designs for years but nobody listens to me 😂
try louder next time
I'm sorry my first diy printer I just thought lighter = better 😢
most people come to the same conclusion
This is extremely common and tends to be perpetuated by some speed focused youtubers and other types influencers in the space. It's an easy mistake to make, don't blame yourself. However i sorta blame Spannsysteme for making these things with no testing.
I am curious if my thermistor is off or something, that benchy was printed at 265 for PETG....i have the jumper in the sbb42 and the setting in ratos pt1000 but i was having issues with 240-250 just not enough melt and slower than my x1c, but PID tune says it's correct
gonna charge my thermal camera and check....
I'm printing PETG at 260. Don't compare temps with other hotends
Do a temptower
is it cause of the long melt zone? rapido long af
I would say its probably mostly because how the temp is measured
That's why you need to do temp towers and not copy others settings
i see i see
I usually start of with a temp tower. Then flow
You using the .0"6 black nozzle? It's steel, takes more oomph to get the heat to the plastic. So your temps would trend high
indeed, needing an extra 10-15 degrees is common with hardened steel nozzles, and they do impact flow rate. That's why you see people preferring tungsten carbide nozzles or Bondtech's bi-metal cht nozzles.
It's worse on the Rapido 2 as the thermistor placement and exposure to the outside is really not ideal. That issue has been fixed in the Rapido ACE as well as the Rapido 2F
the ACE is superior to the 2F though
Crap,.... just installed the Rapido 2,... need to upgrade again? Rapido 2 UHF is getting superspeed, dispites it short comings 😉
No it's still a pretty great hotend despite it's flaws, nothing is perfect 🙂
Is there measurements for the load/unload macros for the ace yet?
@Mitsuma what do you use?
am i not supposed to uncomment the PID tunes?
when they are generated, they are commented out
I havent swapped too much but so far I just use RatOS defaults.
for rapido uhf
The ACE is a couple of mm shorter, I thought. Probably good enough for a drop in replacement or do you use some washers to compensate that, @Mitsuma?
it comes with a 3mm spacer you put on top, you need longer M2.5 screws, 8mm instead of 6mm tho
klipper will do that automatically when you run pid calibration and save it
exactly
chasing zeros that don't matter too much. my cardinal sin.
Hello why do swap to ace ? I am asking because I have some flow issues and tested everything
Now I am asking myself if the rapido is the problem maybe an uneven temp which the thermistor isn’t detected
I changed from the Rapido 1 to the Rapido 2 as I was suffering from (lack of) flow issues. My setup did not deliver what other Rapido 1 setups did, so after a lot of searching without a definitive solution, I "upgraded" to Rapido 2. My Rapido 2 setup delivers a LOT more flow. I have not found any clear answer for that (I am also no longer looking for answers).
I have 2 ideas what it could have been:
1. What I did NOT like about Rapido 1 was the Volcano nozzle in combi with CHT. The friction of the CHT-Volcano is too high, I think, and the volcano hardened CHT nozzles are expensive. The Rapido 2 came equipped with a different extender for the UHF that enables regular CHT nozzles. If I would have know this extender did exist, I could have purchased this separately and see if this was the issue.
2. During the time I used the Rapido 1, I disassembled the unit 2 or 3 times. It could be that i damaged/bend the thin heat break by not tightening the 3 titanium screws equally. If I did that, friction might occur in the unit.
To come back to your question: Should I try Ace? If I would have known it existed prior to purchasing the Rapido 2, I probably would have bought the Ace. Now, as I have a verry good running Rapido 2, I do not intend to upgrade as the current limitation of my machine is now no longer the flow (i think) but more my skill-set and severe lack of patience to further dail-in profiles for filaments and prints,.... I am currently happy as is. Hope this helpes you a bit.
Thank you