Selvedge Denim: Love it or hate it? - Topic of the day 2/29/24
What do you love about selvedge denim? What do you hate? Are the r/rawdenim people who never wash their jeans to get the sickest fades really stinky? Is the selvedge line cute or overrated? When will N&F acutally make good cuts?
119 Replies
Selvedge itself is a pointless detail which is best used for identifying fabric nerds
Selvedge deez nuts
I love raw denim
I like things that feel sturdy
And i like that it wears cool
I enjoy my pair of raws, but please everyone wash them regularly.
there is an artistry and craftsmanship to them that i just do not vibe with i'm so sorry
I think raw denim is super cool, its just easy to troll on for a variety of reasons... the whole hyper fixation on "fades", not washing, freezing, etc. The tendency of internet nerds to hyper fixate on the fabric and ignore the whole outfit (not really a bad thing I guess, but this is a style forum...). The association with super slim tapered fits.
But its still sick
Love Selvedge even if it’s an unnecessary detail. I like to cuff my pants and like the Selvedge line even on chinos
I used to like raw denim for the deep dark indigo colors and sometimes wished it didn’t fade as much. But I’m into lighter washes and faded denim more and have embraced my own fades. I wash my jeans somewhat frequently so my pairs have more “vintage” fades
But my most worn pair is cone denim which apparently doesn’t lend itself to high contrast fades.
Absolutely love it. Favorite pants material. I destroyed my old pair of Unbranded 501s a few years back after blowing out both knees. I also had a Japan Blue jacket I bought at their flagship store in Kurashiki in Japan, but I wound up getting too big for it after taking up weight training. Now it belongs to my little brother. I just got my first pair in a few years last week and I'm loving them so far
If you get through the weird and false ways that selvedge/raw denim is marketed, the history of the fabric is fun and a unique detail. But I still have a bad taste in my mouth from watching people spend $300 on the shittiest cuts of crappy denim available and having to jump through hoops to justify it. Vintage selvedge is always a cool thing to find.
I wouldn't buy selvedge just because it's selvedge, but plenty of super cool types of denim happen to be.
Also, wash your jeans. And if you want to preserve the color of your jeans, you shouldn't have bought raw denim in the first place.
I like raw denim but in general cause interesting fabric and trying different brands
But washing it regularly make it much better imo
I like raws but really I just love the little selvedge detail. It makes cuffs look approximately 1bn times better than the sloppy stitching on the outside seam
I love raw denim and I especially love raw black denim
some of it is way too thicc
but some of the medium thicc stuff is great
like 13-17oz
I'm not super into most weird denim fabrics. Slub always looks like a weird glitch to me since it's irregular but in a repeated way in almost all fabrics. More subtle textures are cool and I'm a sucker for Oni's secret denim but really nice standard raw denim around 13-15oz is where it's at for me most of the time
when you get to 18oz ur tippin into the goofy territory
over 24 oz is deranged
30 oz you should keep it to kink nights if you're thinkin about wearing it out all the time
because it's perverse
it's stinky, it's restrictive, it's self-inflicted pain
I love raw denim, I love the story and craft behind it but I'm not a full blooded denimhead. I love that there's an intense weird subculture into denim with all kinds of not entirely rational rules about a particular pair of pants. I'm happy they are out there doing their thing.
I'd also prolly buy some Kapital century denim if I had the chance and they fit well but I think that's just me wanting to be as cool as @bishopcorrigan or @Eso🌞 [my friends call me bud]
I really like denim with some pronounced nep to it
mmm speckles
century denim is sick and looks 100x better when washed
only problem is its actually really warm
It’s all the denim trust me
It’s like the hit Disney channel original movie Like Mike
texture :ohyes:
I do genuinely need some new jeans soon, my ancient pair of Edwins are falling apart on a cellular level
the brown century denim is my favorite
Selvedge isn’t the best indicator of quality in denim, but is a cool detail. Joker selvedge on the other hand signals to potential mates that you are:
-sigma
-babygirl coded
-not afraid to be a lil funky with it
Always wanted some rainbow selvedge
Ironically, century isn’t selvedge
It IS super expensive, which is basically the same thing
true
back in the day I took a sharpie to the selvedge id on my black denim cause I didnt like how it was not black if I cuffed
Selvedge is cool but I rarely cuff jeans these days so 80s/90s Levi’s gets me my 12” rise at a fraction of the price of high rise repro models.
Hello, fellow alpha genius
Another thing which isnt talked about much but has only happened to me with expensive denim... "Marbling" from washing denim can be cool, for example I've seen some sick examples of well washed mid weight denim https://www.reddit.com/r/rawdenim/comments/17ipamf/tcb_50s_jacket_final_form/ , however a few times I've had very dense heavy weight denim form a very strong crease in the wash that simply does not go away and fade in an undesirable way. These pants, for example, I tried washing as much as possible to even out the look, but it never worked
Reddit
From the rawdenim community on Reddit: TCB 50s Jacket final form
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Yeah I hate that. I think washing inside out is the only way to prevent maybe?
You have to skip the spin cycle
Anyone have the link to the guy who tried to use a power washer to wash his raws?
inside out definitely helps with the actual fades, but the crease remains regardless, and once it forms it stays, regardless of the spin
Yeah once it's there you're screwed
ah, yeah, I had that happen to some uniqlo selvedge pair
RIP to them
Reddit
From the rawdenim community on Reddit: Tried using a powerwasher to...
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ty lmao
https://www.denimio.com/en_GB/brands-graphzero/GZGJRKN0410WHT.html?cgid=graphzero?pid=GZGJRKN0410WHT&quantity=1 this is some crazy interesting denim
jackets
jackets
My not-so-hot takes are:
- Most denim companies are just bad fabric companies and they don't make good pants
- Most "interesting" denim fabric is just gimmicky and not actually that interesting or cool with some notable exceptions (century denim, secret denim, etc.)
- Unique and "fun" selvedge IDs also mostly suck. Just gimme something classic like white with a red stripe or plain white
- Vintage fades are way cooler than high-contrast fades esp when you're an office/WFH drone like me and only get ass fades
Agree with your hot takes. I'll also add that I think alot of companies miss the mark mainly with their fits, but also they market these wacky fabrics with strange dyes, and then put all that on the inside where you will never see it. I want to see the funky stuff on the outside, not more boring old blue
I like a middle point between high contrast and vintage fades
Like i wanna see some whiskers and what not but not super stark contrast
Just a 🤏
yeah if you're gonna be funky you have to actually do it. I think that's why I like century and secret denim but not ~anything N&F or Gustin ever put out
N&F makes dumb denim imo
Some of their stuff feels super gimmicky
That's always been their schtick. it's obviously popular but I agree prolly my least favorite denim company
I feel like after looking through the whole pantheon of various denim options i have found that the classics are still my favorite. Cone white oak is up there for favorite fabric
Really love my vidalia mills pair from left field as well, really great denim imo
All roads lead to repro or the OGs
Fullcount I think is doing a really nice job as well
Classic 501s simply do not fit me
I have come to accept this
There's so many different cuts from over the decades I feel like that can't be true lol
The mistake I made with selvedge was thinking it was a reliable indicator of "good jeans". And it just isn't. It's a minor detail, at best.
It was a moderately expensive mistake, around $200. I've made worse.
I'm also not really into rolled hems personally, although that may be an experience/skill issue.
If you're using rolled hems as a signifier that you're manly, but fashionable, but mostly you spent a lot of money on pants, I'm not digging it.
"You roll your jeans to look fashionable, I roll mine to show off a slutty bit of ankle, we are not the same"
I just have short legs and going to the tailor for <1" feels like im playing myself
I mean, sometimes you want a rolled pant, and sometimes you dont?
A man dabbles
Selvedge was my first true love and the only high school sweetheart I’ve stayed loyal to. I think it’s a cool detail and there’s so much variation in denim that it’s a neverending fascination for me. Unfortunately there’s also a lot of silly denims that are gimmicky and a lot of jeans with unfortunate patterns. Naked & Famous gets derision because it’s such a prominent example of this, but they’re not the only company who does this. That said, there’s dozens of companies now that have cool jeans and I support an interest in it. Also, wash your jeans folks
When you go to Japan and ask the Japanese people "how do you get such awesome fades?" They all say "... I just wash them..."
Take your jeans outta the damn freezer.
I can take or leave the selvedge as a detail but I do like the repro cuts that many brands offer. I really appreciate their attention to detail with hardware, recreating vintage fabric, and vintage silhouettes. I also appreciate how many are still relatively small companies run by real craftsmen
Note**
The Japanese hang dry their clothes. Don't throw your raws in the dryer
I don’t like fades so I follow opposite advice
Absolutely. These are all things that matter a lot more than a silly white ribbon, IMO.
ooo, defo agree with point 4 - yeah. I've always preferred more subtle fading
Actually you can throw your raws in the dryer too it’s fine
they just become medium rares
This just in, raws are just pants that tricked you into being a weirdo
You can do whatever you want. There are no rules
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1116793468489039904/1212779821189308496/IMG_0433.jpg?ex=65f31439&is=65e09f39&hm=409cc6fede518fecb846c447dc9a6cd28ad2e59c65be58193d5412fee3024ecf& these all were just washed and dried with my other shit
The first couple washes they might bleed but after that it doesn’t really matter
I like raws but hate getting dye on everything 😦
Yeah I just washed my raincoat the other day and noticed it had a blue stripe all along the cotton lining from wearing some full counts on a rainy day
also s/o fullcount for doing raw denim in truly wide fits
I’m sure this came up but so much beautiful denim wasted on lowrise slim jeans
i have a lot of jeans and probably around half of them are selvedge. but, of all the selvedge i own, only two of them ever get cuffed so to the average person, it just looks like any other pair of jeans. i just like it because i like it - no other real reason. i also have a bunch of raws (both selvedge and non-selvedge) and prefer vintage fades so im not much of a stickler on the whole washing thing either. just need to be mindful of which pair i wear since some cause more crocking than others so if theres a chance i'll be sitting on light colored furniture or something i'll opt for something thats already faded or wont bleed as much
price wise, ive owned decent selvedge as cheap as $50, and non-raw, non-selvedge around the $3-400 range, so i dont think selvedge or raw is a true indicator of price (or quality, for that matter)
That's why selvedge pockets exist, unfortunately.
haha, dont forget the single belt loop with the selvedge ID too
I hate these kinds of details lol
Its way too try hard. Like i’m buying these specifically cause i want you to see they are selvedge
This is actually groundbreaking advice for me lmao. I have noticed this in several pairs of my pants and I've been flustered as to why it happens despite using different washers!
Not as offended by the belt loop but the visible selvedge coin pocket is cringe
Might as well hang a sign around your neck that says please please please ask me about my super cool jeans
They should just sew seam the opposite way, so the selvedge is visible all the way up the leg. 🙂
OF COURSE that's a thing. 😭
I love these so much
Much love to the denimheads who dress well like upsett1 and beans but I'm not into wearing heritage Japanese selvedge raw etc denim and wouldn't suggest it to people who are getting into dressing better
I think it's super cool that Japanese brands did the whole repro-but-better thing, I respect it, but I would so much rather buy some $20 vintage relaxed fit jeans than spend 10-20x that on some denimhead denim and go through the process of fading it myself
And yeah super cold take but lots of the cuts suck, soooo much slim tapered raw selvedge denim
Don’t worry, I don’t really get much fades either 😂
I guess my point comes down to this, Ethan's jeans look really good here, and they're not selvedge, raw, Japanese, or even expensive
To steal this thread to discuss this: how the f does one cuff pants like that and have them stay?
I got into raw denim stuff before I really knew how to dress so now I'm stuck with 2 pairs of really cool jeans in horrible slim tapered cuts. My pair of momotaros is basically my goto pair of house and work pants since I still really like the details and the fabric
You are entirely correct. IMO the primary draw for selvedge is the history, interesting choices in how fabric is woven and dye techniques, and the crazy variations in textures. None of this is particularly oriented on looking good. There’s a lot of bricked fits with really expensive jeans and a lot of really good fits with cheap jeans.
Great take. I think a lot of people got into it for the wrong reasons
Like the decade old mfa advised everyone to get slim selvedge denim because it was trending at the time which makes sense
I wouldn't say the wrong reason but I think this idea that if you are into fashion you need to have a pair of selvedge jeans or that selvedge is higher "quality" is completely false.
For me if I'm spending money on jeans it's some detailing in the cut or fabric, selvedge doesn't matter. Eg: Century Denim or some other weird Kapital piece, Lemaire twisted denim, SFC fatigue styled denim, idk waxed denim, etc.
A lot of the things that make some denims the most beautiful and/or interesting are essentially QC flaws anyway
Never ever uncuff them
I have a friend who uncuffs his jeans every night 😭
“I’m in this picture and I don’t like it”
Never fear, the road to swag is paved with bricks
It’s actually been quite liberating to donate many expensive denim items recently, since I, and probably many snared by the raw denim world, had this feeling that the clothes were a long term project that would get better with time . Even if I didn’t want to wear them anymore there was this sunk cost fallacy and feeling like there was lost potential. Overall it’s nice to remember they are just clothes and there is no reason to hang on to them just cause I used to like them
I wore raw selvedge denim almost exclusively for ~15 years, and I have only recently realized how uncomfortable it is compared to washed denim and other types of casual pants. I like the dark indigo color but I don't like how rigid it is.
After 15 years, I think you're ready to learn about an MFA secret called the "washing machine"
I wash my raw denim. When I refer to "washed" denim I'm talking about denim that has been treated and is softer, has better drape, etc.
I was just kidding around. 🙂
I’m just happy the vast majority of people have left the “not washing for months” and sea wash nonsense behind
Are we talking about jeans made out of denim with a selvedge edge here or are we talking about /r/rawdenim type shit
Cuz there are definitely cool brands making denim in a variety of non uncomfortable fits that use selvedge fabric
Some of the crazy fabrics I do think are very cool and interesting but I’d never ever ever buy jeans in them
I’m assuming a lot of this falls under the same umbrella
Like the really slubby stuff
Kapital century denim mentioned above isnt selvedge but I guess gets coded into r/rawdenim territory at times
jeans, japan
And you have brands like Auralee doing selvedge
Yeah there’s a brand /r/rawdenim probably doesn’t care about
Auralee has some cool jeans
Really like their cuts but I have enough pants (selvedge denim included) to last me a lifetime
you need more pant
All this to say last time I bought jeans I intentionally bought a pair that were washed and non selvedge
Thoughts on pre-distressing vs just washed denim?
I mean same but I will probably still acquire more 🥲
Don’t like pre-distressing, honestly I feel like the Orslow 1 wash is perfection
Not what I got but that fabric is so nice
I’m generally opposed to pre-distressing as well, but I got some jeans in the OrSlow used wash last year and they’re one of my favorite things, I’ve been converted
2 year wash is the perfect pair of jeans for my stubby legged body, they feel perfect
warehouse makes really nice washed denim too
i think a lot of the flack around raw or selvege denim and that culture is a bit outdated. like /r/rawdenim is hilarious sometimes but most people into it aren't seriously throwing their shit in the freezer or sleeping in their jeans anymore
I'm a big fan of raw denim, especially repro brands and interesting textures. Selvedge isn't very important to me but I'd be lying if I said I didn't love how it looks cuffed
Denim Thing 😭
Denim Thing Kapital :gigachad:
*autism
source: im probably somewhat autistic