"How Designer Brands Keep You Poor". Thoughts?
https://youtu.be/UzJQiqhldXo?si=yPgauw7zgGAn8QgV
So I've seen this video several times now. Putting brands aside, the video doesn't give much in the way of high-quality clothing alternatives. It does imply that rich people to go TJ Maxx for their clothes lmao.
Cara Nicole
YouTube
How Designer Brands Keep You Poor
They target the poor, not the rich.
I LAUNCHED A NEWSLETTER!! 🎉 https://thepopfinancereport.substack.com/ -- GO CHECK IT OUT & SUBSCRIBE!!! 🥰
Buying designer brand products can trap you in a cycle of chasing status, sinking debt, and losing out on the chance to build real wealth. Let's talk about why designer brands will keep you poor.
In th...
300 Replies
Ok but I'm ok with being poor but with beautiful things
rich ppl stay rich by not wearing any clothes
I’m not watching this but I’m assuming this person is generalizing people based on insecurity
What’s the point of having money if you don’t use it to make you happy?
Or to make other people happy!
First thing I did when I realized I had at least a little bit of a disposable income was buy gifts for my friends
Once i got disposable income i dropped all my old friends weird
But this is a REALLY way more in depth convo imo, Sam. YouTube slop as the jumping off point isn’t gonna help anyone
Performative luxury is a real and predatory marketing method that some brands rely on but some of y'all ain't gonna talk about that :caught:
Also a lot of critique of this type of stuff ends up having motives of classism and stereotypes, especially of minorities
iirc that was the main issue of the vid
like people buying the sort by low monogrammed shit just to peacock as wealthy and how it traps a lot of poorer people into debt
not literally "don't buy expensive things bc the real rich people don't"
Especially the difference between “real” rich people and “fake” rich people who may have the same net wealth but one group is seen to be more real because of preconceived notions of what a rich person should be (read: white or adhering to white society)
^
Really well put
I mean yeah people wanna be seen as wealthier/higher class and buying a 1k monogrammed good is seen as "a worth investment" to be treated nicer
God forbid you had to work for your money
That's gauche
Same thing with plastic surgery. Some people are naturally beautiful, others work and make money to look just as beautiful 💅
this video is pretty good and touches on some good points
Expensive to be good looking
:nooooo:
you're not ugly you're just broke :psywut:
TRUEEEE
Just get a nose job brokeyyyy
Are we reciting lines from crazy rich Asians now
god sending me a sign from char to get the surgery :nailz:
Anyway when my work day is over I'll try to watch the video and engage earnestly
the thing she speaks to in particular isn't necessarily about this iirc
it's that this sort of good is disproportionately consumed by the lower class and is used to create another class hierarchy within it
they prey on the unfortunate reality that a lot of poor people do indeed have misconceptions about what stereotypes are associated with wealth and help perpetuate it at the expense of those communities
:caught:
yeah i dont think any of you guys actually watched the video lol
agi is the only person who actually is speaking to the video properly
a lot of the people buying this stuff are doing it on debt
heck i have family that fell into this trap
it's a bit tone deaf and demeaning to hear this kind of misconception from some of the wealthier people here
:huhh2:
Ok I put it on
send me a transcript
im on 2x speed and she's telligble
I also have family who did this, but in the form of Mercedes Benz cars
damn my uncles just gambled like most other asian uncles
tl;dr it's mainly being used to make poor people look down on each other rather than appeal to the people higher up
it's unfortunately why people are willing to still fight tooth and nail for burberry coats being 60% off msrp at costco despite it being considered washed by the wider fashion community
gonna drop this essay here https://tressiemc.com/uncategorized/the-logic-of-stupid-poor-people/
hell of a link name whew
Ok I'm five minutes in and I'm going to force through despite putting a whole ass Anna Bey snippet
genuinely i dont really get the thesis
of the vid or the essay
the vid, my b
she falls apart around the halfway mark into the influencer buy less buy better schpiel
yeah that's where i am too, once she starts mathing about it she loses me a bit
this is where i agree with and which i think the biggest takeaway is
chasers :monkaS:
she points out that it's not the fault of the misinformed consumer but the brands that are perpetuating this awful behavior bc it creates a constant revenue cycle within these communities
I don't necessarily agree with her follow up that you should just be more mindful and buy better bc it's pretty much empty platitudes but I do agree that this segment of these industries is a plague
Fwiw a lot of brands are culling their 1-3k segment
Idk ig I just disagree? Like I don't blame brands for selling themselves. I've seen people be self destructive thru all sorts of spending habits that are unrelated to status it just kinda feels. Idk. Blaming a symptom instead of addressing a meaningful problem?
To avoid this market entirely
I like this article
I honestly do not think the LVMH/Chanel/Kering groups care for the lower end of the market, given how they continue to raise prices and cut low end SKUs
And make VIP only stores now
Even a few years ago this was in the works
I do think that people should stop blaming people for treating themselves. What’s the difference between a $1k cruise and a $1k handbag? Why are we able to say that the $1k handbag is a bad purchase but the cruise is a good one?
Agi I agree that we didn't interact with the video meaningfully
But now that I have watched it, I don't really think the video has much to say
idk maybe its me fundamentally falling for what is a bait title but buying designer doesnt keep people poor and i hate that fucking mindset lmao
i mean i ain't gonna defend the whole vid lol
i think it did its job as an entry level discussion for a wider audience since it hit trending a while ago
:caught:
I've watched my own relatives do the status race, if it's not 1k handbags it's the lowest line BMW/Mercedes
yeah like the earlier essay says it in itself is not a cause but is a symptom
Hey guys I'm back-
It just feels disingenuous on a surface level and downright insulting once she falls into the platitudes imo
This Steve Jobs analogy has irked me
but I do think some blame can be attributed to the corp bc otherwise you slide into the "don't blame us blame the consumer" territory that they use as a scapegoat
Those turtlenecks were custom issey
Just because it didn’t have a logo on it
good article
Failing to truly examine why people would engage with what is a "pointless cycle" in the first place is a total misstep
this video is pissing me off (im about halfway through) because its the same old tired platitudes of "real rich people wear dogshit clothes!! they're so humble! stupid poor people wear logos! they're so stupid!"
I think that there is a place in society for status symbols and there always has. These companies aren’t creating anything new
stupid poor people need to be saved from themselves!
I couldn’t get past the first 5 minutes of the video because the assumption that status is the primary reason for seeking any sort of allocation product irks me. Sure, that is often a part of it, but can’t people just want nice things because they’re nice??? I don’t want a Porsche 911 because it’s hard to get, I want it because it’s sick. I don’t drive an old BMW because I want people to think I’m rich, I drive it because it’s the car I like the most that I can afford to drive.
It’s not like someone is $1k in debt only because they were fed advertising from a conglomerate. If they were planning to spend this money they would spend it on other status symbols. Poor people have agency
And there’s nothing wrong with status symbols, per pinkkea’s article!
The most egregious status symbol I know is schooling tbh
That's my biggest sticking point, it's a continuitation of the "poor people are victims of their own behavior" type shit
going back to what ig Sam opened this discussion for
yes the lack of directed suggestions does weaken the point but I do think she has a point in that falling for that cycle of logo = fashionable is very dangerous
which I unfortunately think is guiding more of your purchases than it should right now
the smug logic of mark fuckerberg wearing the same boring t-shirt every day is not aspirational to me
ok sorry let me watch the second half of the video
second half isn't worth
Pinks no it gets worse
can just stop where the most replayed peak is
It’s a $400 t shirt that he buys in bulk and then throws away when he’s worn it
If it were logo = fashion it’d be something else. Before Logomania it was cashmeres, furs, etc. And poor people still bought it!
What’s harmful is associating Logomania with trashiness which tends to be because of stereotypes
Idk what irks me is the sentiment that it’s ok for a person to go to Disneyland under credit because it’s an “experience” but it’s not ok for the same person to work for a goal of buying a designer purse
And we should save these people from buying designer and having medium term goals of saving up etc
ok so in the second half she's just listing things we already know about designer brands. that they're wasteful and bad for the environment. yes but the poor person saving up for a fancy bag is not contributing to the bulk of that. dont really see how it's relevant
I LOVE MATERIAL GOODS!!!!!
i guess every fashion video rehashes this because you know 10k ppl learning things for the first time but still
it doesn't feel that relevant and imo weakens the points she makes in the first half
bro when i was 18k annual poor i was buying designer shit secondhand because it made me happy lmfao and i was putting that shit on credit, but it didnt keep me poor. being 18k a year kept me poor.
Ok Sam since you posted this, what discussion did you want to get out of this
It’s like those people who are like “just cancel your subscriptions to Netflix if you want to be rich” as if saving $16 a month will move up a tax bracket
What did you take away vs what we've discussed here
You're not wrong :bloberm:
I think I'd have to disagree with this point unfortunately
this is teetering on the defense that stuff like sports gambling companies use to justify their extortionate marketing bc it's purporting that wealth chasing is completely independent of marketing
this is from the comments in the article pinks linked - some overlapping themes w the video
“How is one debt different from the other except for the fact that one is a signal of wealth, now lost, and the other is a signal of the capacity for wealth hoped for?”
real talk two minutes in the creator notes her goals are to share financial education in an engaging way and to reduce consumption as these things "keep people poor" but...why have an affiliate code or promote your products in the comments
why not be robin hood and offer this up for free?
before my newfound appreciation for fashion i was very much into minimalism and it always struck me as odd how so many content creators would churn out content discussing ways of decreasing consumption by advertising a completely new product
i think this kinda drives into the heart of what makes this a complex issue - people have agency but companies also use deceptive and manipulative marketing in order to try to drive that agency you know
I was thinking about this earlier while browsing the TJ of the UK, she mentions that fast fashion is harmful (which it is) but basically implies that rich people... Shop at TJs.
ok tbh affiliate code is w/e since it doesn't actually change the price of something it just gives them a cut
but yeah the paid budget tracker tool is :xdcrying:
WAIT
Ok, I've got TK Maxx here but I could find designer (PRL) alongside Zara lol
I think different levels of rich function differently
3:35 she mentions how steve jobs always wore that turtleneck look and despite beng super rich had no designer logos in sight
By Vanessa Friedman
The New York Times
Why Steve Jobs Chose This Designer’s Turtlenecks (Published 2022)
The real beginning of the fashion-technology love affair and its legacy lies with Issey Miyake, who died last week.
am i a fucking moron
THIS is how i found out issey died???
3 YEARS AGO?????
And I wouldn't be surprised if a local trader Joes had at least ten millionaires in there as a function of housing ballooning in value in the last twenty years
But that's just one class of millionaires vs idk Bezos or smth
She's not wrong, but surprisingly rich people aren't a monolith
logomania as a shorthand for the excess of wealth/status i get but steve jobs is a bad example of emulatable behavior
Also I think that people are individuals and generalizations like this can lead you down some dangerous paths
Ok i watched the whole vid at 1x speed so i can make a salient point
ok so there's two things here
1) frugal wealthy people do but it's not generally applicable to brand an entire class like that and portraying it as such seems more like what other people have mentioned with "punishing" the poor for "doing it wrong"
2) this kinda brings back what we've been suggesting of wanting you to consider what you want to get out of a purchase if the branding was wholly removed (i.e. does it still hold up as smth that genuinely interests you if it was say a design rip instead of a cheaper/diffusion offering)
no i'm gonna juice cleanse this cancer bro
you're joking
😭
i wish
Big agree she was definitely cherry picking examples
yeah i'm watching at 2x speed and pausing for questionable moments
it's giving almost achieved class consciousness
not caught up on the whole chat, but this was a good read
so close
While i agree with alot of what she said it really seems that this comes from the perspective of a person who is finance pilled and doesnt care about fashion.
also like...honestly i would argue hermes is one of the few brands where their exclusivity is justifiable
the second half when she pulls out the numbers hurts the point more then helps to me
Like yah i know your s&p fund is gonna yield more when you invest money in but that aint why i’m buying the bag
someone can fact check me here but imo they're the last (?) family-owned luxury brand in france and given the impact of LVMH that is saying something
That's my biggest gripe with this video, and I know 2 other videos that are exactly like this :linkDead:
i think the heir is giving everything to their gardener now
I think sports gambling is a different issue because it created an environment that was difficult to attend into one at your fingertips. Gambling addiction is was more difficult when it wasn’t readily available with you at all times and now, anyone can be addicted, not requiring trips to distant casinos.
I believe that luxury goods, status symbols and purchasing have always been prevalent in any society and the type of good does not vary impulses. Whether it’s rare coins, fine china, silverware, furs, coats, or elaborate wigs, they have permeated society in every era. We are just replacing these with monogrammed handbags.
Of course, there is the argument that online shopping could be the root cause of more people living beyond their means and things like klarna or afterpay since this also allows shopping to be MUCH easier but I do not fault this to be the actions of luxury conglomerates. If anything, credit and the internet have caused this phenomenon to proliferate.
https://fortune.com/europe/2024/07/31/hermes-heir-shares-vanished-gardener-inheritance/
>In a court case which concluded this month, Puech said he no longer owns the assets in question: $13 billion’s worth of shares in Hermès International SCA... Puech claimed he has no idea where the assets have vanished to and his former wealth manager, Eric Freymond, was to blame.
Yah like she is right, but it really ignores the aspect of fashion as a hobby. No one pays into a hobby expecting a profit.
it's the same people who talk shit about, idk, cars or whattever as "bad investments"
Which is what makes gambling so fucking terrible
Exactly like yah i know i’m gonna get washed on this car, i bought it cause its fun not cause its gonna yeild a 14.5% return over ten years
Even using a nice item as a token that you made a goal is nice. Like, oh it’s my 10th year at company, I’m going to buy a nice watch.
you aren't allowed to enjoy anything material unless you somehow come out ahead obviously
btw this is why i said "what's the point of having money if not to make you happy" the core of my thesis is you as a human being with agency are allowed to make choices for your own sake OR that may pay dividends in non monetary ways (h/t, pinkkea)
Even if you don’t appreciate the watch it’s nice to have something that you worked for
she sort of touches that with the "mindful living" thing but then kinda deviates which is my problem with the back half of the vid imo
Like i could make this same video about anything that someone buys themselves to make them happy. “Why the model train buisness is keeping you poor”
I think this is just very apparent in real life and also the classism aspect
While i agree with the point that luxury fashion uses predatory practices on lower income people i think it really only touches on one type of person buying this stuff. Not everyone is buying luxury clothes to signal wealth
Music is keeping me poor 😭 😭
£5.99 student subscription
Like you said, no one is getting mad if people spend too much on model trains or audio equipment but once it turns to handbags…
Which seems to be her implication
i think there's a salient big picture idea of "chasing status is self-limiting" which i agree with but like digs says there's other reasons why people can enjoy clothes
as someone who was that person that went into debt buying stuff to try to be cool - only to fail - it kinda sucks but i think sweeping all luxury brands with that brush is damning
sometimes things are expensive because they're valued appropriately, because their material use or their construction or their ingenuity or their meaning is worth the high price that a designer/artisan will charge
and while i personally don't like spending money on things because i like money (i'm a taurus) i can respect artisans putting a value on their work - i may disagree with that value but that's what ebay is for - and may be willing to shell out if i agree with the valuation
my main emphasis was on your third point lol
more than just the availability of online shopping, online discourse has made it very very difficult to escape the type of sub-classist posts that are similarly pervasive (i.e. grindset/flexing social media accounts) to gambling ads
is part of this attributable to social media in general? sure, but again I think the brands are to blame in releasing this sort of "pseudo-accessible" tier of product to perpetuate this
like midi said earlier brands are starting to cut back on this but I'm not familiar enough with the shifts to know whether they've chosen to do this as a change of heart
cough women
:caught:
women :caught:
however, i wanna say a lot of the finance types do get mad and judgy when people spend money on this stuff
They've done the cut back because legitimately they do not want the poors to have access
Which is another problem in of itself
This is totally true though
I do think the article pinkkea linked does a good job on why this topic is far more applicable to clothing than other stuff because of the effect is has on others perception of you, while it also is kinda opposite point to the video. i recommend reading it because I don't have the brainpower to write a half decent summary
my understanding is that even the 1-3k range is still what i'd consider to have more genuinely "aspirational" owns
vs the literal afterthought bottom of the bin garbage like $95 monogrammed pop sockets that are there just to dangle a carrot on the poor people they look down on and benefit from
:caught:
Chanel was selling mini classic flaps at hmm 3k per pop around 5 years ago
I think they're 5k now
Wallet on chain was 1.7k and I think they're 3k now
I think brands are cutting back on this not because of change of heart but because 1) this sector isn’t as profitable as they thought and/or 2) because of the anti-logo items sentiment, they don’t want to dilute their brand image
3) all of the above
also bc they can't keep raising prices
sales are down
so the other way to go about exclusivity is to cut out the lower priced items
Line must go up... Prices I mean
tbf the second part is only relevant for their actual wealthy consumers :boi:
the logo is synonymous with a lot of these brands for the lower class
i.e. asking laypeople what they think balenciaga is
I think thats a totally fair point but it still only applies to the sect of people who buy stuff to signal wealth which i dont believe represents everyone.
absolutely, I just think going off the topic and content of the video that's mostly what she seems to be getting at there's really nothing about fashion as a hobby in there at all, which is also a problem
i mean
the finbro mindset accusation wasn't wrong
yeah it feels more like a finance video than anything to do with fashion
idk fashion is a form of self expression and you're saying something by getting dressed - yeah not everyone is trying to signal wealth, but most people are trying to signal something with their clothes
lemme see if I can try to find a vid discussing this topic from a less tangential channel
I feel like Issey died yesterday. I remember right after he died when people would compliment my homme plissé pants I would say: "Thank you. They're from Issey Miyake. He just died..." and then just let them sit with that info.
finance is fine if that's your thing but i think ppl need to keep the finance mindset out of hobbies
We did not interact with the original video earnestly, but honestly that's because this is a well worn discussion people have had in the past where people into fashion find themselves under the microscope of people who have no interest in engaging in our own hobby earnestly
See: personal finance people
Absolutely agree, i just think there is a lot more depth to why someone buys and wears something than signaling wealth
anytime someone uses the word “intentional” to describe existing I know that they live a joyless life
It's the same with weddings, fashion, handbags (I separate this out because it's not always the same intersection as fashion people)
My bias is that I constantly find myself being scrutinised under a veil of "class discussion" so im usually not very receptive to these sorts of topics
And yeah maybe I should stop engaging lol
me but "being a woman and having hobbies"
It is interesting that the clothing hobby is considered “shopping” while other hobbies like vinyl or keyboards or trains are considered “collecting” and I do think it’s because woman vs man hobby
Simply become a man and have your hobby be buying expensive knives or car parts or guitars or guns or…
classic watches vs handbags
Investments vs trifles
horses vs hogs
Alien vs predator
I think this might have been covered but zeroing in on luxury brands and logomania specifically is telling. I've seen multiple FMF users crash out on +$3k J Crew "hauls"
ok just putting in my last two cents
this is a topic I'm quite passionate about since I've personally been on both extremes - like the entry for me even evolving my fashion perspective to consider less wearable/more artistic runway pieces was contingent on having the means to consume above my SES through sheer luck
I appreciate a lot of the discourse that this topic generates but I'd just like people to be more nuanced in considering this bc I feel like y'all sometimes miss the mark without the lived perspective to draw from and tend to get quite defensive from a very alienating angle
:ibs:
think of all the bros suffering in silence with a dozen pairs of killshots, or does that not count bc there's a logo?
ok but spending $3k at J crew is insane simply because they’re not carrying $3k worth of interesting stuff at any given time
I agree with you, i think most peoples issue with the subject was that her take wasn’t very nuanced either
ya I think we're with you agi
To be 100% earnest, this is exactly what I think about the entire premise of this conversation and the last word on the subject as far as I'm concerned.
yeah ngl she did not scream class solidarity :xdcrying:
I think she brought up a lot of really good points and the video had potential to be a lot better if she approached the topic with more nuance
Counterpoint: I think she doesn’t know anything about fashion and her points are bad because she doesn’t understand the thing she’s trying to be critical of
I mentioned that earlier too lol
this is an ok entry point but she pivoted way off base with some of the tangents and i think people honed in on that aspect to the detriment of the point I think this type of vid is meant to make
:caught:
This is a good excerpt
I think the very format of the "video essay" is antithetical to knowledge itself.
It's a classic!
I dont think i necessarily agree with this
i do
I feel like there is a certain strain of video essay, that this falls in, that is intended to be like, easily digestible and going for a wider audience rather than addressing a topic in a meaningful and nuanced way
I dont think the format of video essay should be thrown put entirely
not to get too meta but honing in on the current form of "video essays" which are meant to just be surface-level take-downs of an easy target over +2hrs going only as deep as the first paragraph in a wikipedia article are the function of social media algorithms and shouldn't be damning of videos as a form of media entirely
I think that some video essay content though is more or less entertaining and the video shared above was mostly just irritating
I liked it when video essays were investigative journalism
midi said “I miss the old Vice”
But the algorithm rewards longer videos
you absolute rubes this is fashion discussion not medium-of-discussion-discussion
SBS insight was my favourite
Vice was weird
that being said I think video essays are often one of the worst forms of media to convey these types of messages. Written media is easier to preserve, find, catalogue, search within, etc.
I wouldn't go nearly as far as antithetical to knowledge tho
I think this is with a lot of hobbies that also can be confused with everyday essentials. Some people treat clothing as a chore and others as an interest.
I googled this. We did not have this here in our country. Seems neat
What’s that meme of a video essay being too surface level is badly researched and dumb and a video essay being too in depth is for nerds and can’t understand their audience
I agree here, cars are necessary to much of the US and so putting any money into it is seen as a really frivolous effort. Meanwhile tech bros are spending thousands on WFH set-ups as an "investment" somehow
Our country being your China correct?
It's how I developed my interest in human interest stories
If you have ever watched a video essay and liked it, you are a moron!
idk but prolly folding ideas or whatever that channel is called
Yes I know pierre
Don't need to be reminded that I'm stupid
oh wait a parody video essay idk
Yes. I was absolutely not thinking about a place where PBS Frontline exists and was legit
We had PBS (which honestly is pretty lit)
Was PBS the only channel where you could see people of colour on free to air tv also
there’s a lot of good in depth video essays out there but there are petabytes of slop on YouTube lol
Something something media literacy
I think videos can be a really effective way to communicate, of course. I meant specifically the form of the "video essay" in the way it has crystallized on YouTube right now.
Most of those slop video essays hang in the 15-30minute length I’ve found
As distinct from, like, the documentary format itself.
I never really considered the racial dynamics at play, but yes 😦
this take I agree with, but mostly as the root issue being algorithmic social media
I’m not saying there isn’t slop not in that length or that people aren’t making decent stuff in that length just that like, in general I’m suspicious of the research or care you put into videos of that length
which I have talked about far too much today
Of course. The crystallization is really the crystallization of material social forces, not a bunch of creators deciding of their own free will to do the same thing.
The only places you'd see Asians on TV is either on cooking reality TV shows or SBS or the ABC
I like video essays of trivial things
Like the ones about the Mr beast games
I'm stupid too. I've certainly enjoyed a video essay in my day! But I'm not sure I can think of even a single one that I can actually cite as a source of knowledge.
Damnnnnn this blew up!
I watched one that changed how I use my dishwasher
that's about it
Technology connections?
that's the boi
He makes cool stuff he’s one of the good ones lol
first principles guy about window awnings and dishwashers my 🐐
I haven't watched the one about algorithms tbh
I think my issue with video essays is that they don't actually utilize the formal properties of video in a meaningful way.
They could usually just be a transcript with photos.
Insofar as the properties of video are used it is just transitions or gimmicks to keep the spectator's visual attention.
It's just one step above the TV shows and movies being created that are meant to be "always on"
something you can watch/listen to while making dinner or scrolling on your phone
I love that guy
And he admits when he’s wrong!
He’s also sneaky funny
I mean, if keeping visual attentions helps people ingest the information i’m not sure why it is a bad thing
And only 2 years older than me!
i like todd in the shadows breakdowns of one hit wonders too lol
and his delicious dismantling of james somerton that was the right hook to hbomb's left
I don't think it helps ingest the information. I think the thing is you could drop out all of that and the information would be the same.
I think video essays are a good format for pop culture review
I think a piece of media needs to justify its form.
Ones that an essay wouldn’t work for
i think some people learn in different ways
🤷♀️
Like a retrospective of a tv show
dives into video games are cool too when it's showing like gameplay examples of what they're talking about
I think in this case it does justify the form!
Idk i find it easier for me to absorb info through audio or video media. I get too distracted trying to just read
We are getting way off topic though
(i blame algorithmic social media for this)
I don't really believe that people are just inherently better at absorbing information through video. I think the way that you learn is shaped by culture not the other way around.
my issue is not so much that they exist, but that the slop-form is sort of the primary form
OFF TOPIC??? In MY MFAD???
uhhhhhhhhhhhh i mean there's "intentional" as in mindful of one's behavior (good) and "intentional" as in 'tightly controlling/curating an existence' (bad). consumption is a big component of such and while luxury brands are guilty of trying to garner overconsumption frankly so are shitty brands (your walmarts, your sheins etc). this is a minor pain point and i apologize for the necro ✌️
Lots of people now would say they learn better through video essays. That's because of the way their singularity has been shaped by things like algorithmic social media. Which is not to say that it's a bad thing—books and the written word similarly reshaped the way people learn.
@Digs In many ways I've been projecting my own perspective into universal judgments. I just want to say that my comments like "Video Essays themselves are antithetical to knowledge" and "Anybody who likes video essays is stupid" are tongue in cheek and poking fun at myself. I don't really believe that people who like video essays are dumber than me LOL.
Slop exists in every media form though i feel like its mostly an issue of media literacy
Identifying the slop is the important part
I meant using the word “intentional” as personal branding
fair point
The math cartoon youtube guy is a great example of using the medium to a great degree and absolutely destroying more common forms of math pedagogy
i don't know or care to know this woman's background enough to go into the reasons why one willfully chooses to brand themselves as intentional
Appreciate you clarifying Pierre thank you, i did not think you were calling me stupid and i do think you brought up a good point 💜
it's all love
I mean what am i if not a product of the world around me.
I guess I just believe that the algorithm is much stronger than people give it credit for and it's an issue that can't be resolved in a distributed manner by increasing media literacy
Mostly bc media literacy is dogshit because of these platforms
while i would love to dive into video essays and why i hate them currently, my one fleeting though on the topic is: i think someone, maybe @thomas or pierre quoting someone or someone famous idk, mentioned that ultimately we buy clothes because we're unable to create them ourselves and imo that did a number to inform some of my recent thinking, partly to try and make/create more things with tactile means and partly in appreciating things that i could not do even with high cost. but again that speaks to the "there's other reasons to like clothes" argument
i do think video essays are good for visual media - tv/film video essays can be good, fashion essays can be good, etc - the problem is in many cases people build their thesis around the visual video rather than building the video around the arguments
But I think we're tit-tatting rn anyway
er I am rather
OR the creator is not an engaging person on camera/on mic and i hate that that's factoring in here but it is
That's part of the media imo!
i mean yes
If you're bad on video try writing an essay and let someone who's better on video make a video
it's far more prevalent if you're trying to make videos in the zeitgeist vs reference/historical videos
something something the media is the message
definitely true
how much is a hog
More than $1500
i think video essays in the modern age are good. most of what we'll ever consume are slop, and the form a message is delivered in is immaterial to the actual message.
the algo is a curse but it's impossibly hard to "discover" new things in the modern world. Would we have had this 350+ post discourse if it weren't for the fact that this was a video essay? if this was a post on a blog it would have not only been forgotten but it would never have been seen
I do personally like reading written stuff more. You can go at your own pace. It's unfortunate it's not as like algorithmically inclined but substack is trying to work around that
I completely disagree with the idea that the form a message is delivered in is immaterial to the actual message.
not everything is a magnum opus pierre
sometimes media is just media
I'm just pointing out that my perspective is coming from the opposite premise haha.
where we certainly agree is that the medium can amplify a message, but that's baby shit
Lots of video essays make great use of the video component
I think folding ideas is a great example
But also like
Idk at its baseline it uses the format to the same degree as like late night television
if this video had been a forgotten and never seen blog post we would all be fine
Better off even, possibly
What this passage means, to me, is that truth is not an essence (or a content) that simply exists and is impartial to its communication. Actually the truth can only come to be through the form in which it is communicated.
speak to what Truth is in this context then pierre
@algoresky But your perspective on truth is totally valid. I mean, lots of people believe that it exists apart from the form in which it is presented/communicated, and that idea goes back to Plato. I think if you have that perspective then it's natural to conclude that "media is just media." I'm on the other side of the coin.
To me, simply from that passage, the conclusion is that there is no truth. If that's the case, what's the form matter ultimately if it won't reveal anything in our world to the consumer?
That's not what the passage means to me.
His point is that the truth is actually the determinate negation of the false.
You've got a different context as I have about 40 words to interpret
Did not we get too philosophical for the trashy influencier essay
Why not get philosophical? It's discord. I enjoy thinking about how our aesthetic ideas go back to deeper questions.
I need content that is easier to meme
And I don't think you're crazy @algoresky. I just think it's interesting that our disagreement is actually reflective of a really deep divide in how philosophers conceive of knowledge and truth itself.
why would you would they when the would wouldnt who
pierre, respectfully, that is incredibly patronizing
How is it patronizing
i am familiar with the concept of philosophy and to act as though you're unlocking some great insight into the challenges therein is patronizing
I don't think I'm unlocking anything for you lol
Sorry if that's how I made it seem
is actually reflective of a really deep divide in how philosophers conceive of knowledge and truth itself.if this isn't patronizing as though you're speaking to a child who has no idea of philospohical concepts idk what is
That wasn't really meant for you, I was just trying to justify myself to the person saying "Did we not get too philosophical for the trashy influencer essay.
Wow this was an extremely good read
I know I'm necroing but that was really eye opening
👆
i’m glad other people like it! it rly clarified a lot of things when i read it the first time
i had never thought to question some assumptions before
Just sent this to my smart friends
I just back read all of this bc it was interesting to me and here‘s my thoughts no one asked for:
I personally think that „I learn better through videos“ isn‘t a valid argument , what is tho is „I learn better through spoken word“ which is absolutely true for me and also the reason I love podcasts and go to all my lectures at uni
I personally think video essays are fine as long as they cite their sources, they work especially well for pop culture topics (as said by someone before) mostly because the topic itself is video based nowadays
Like it‘s so much harder to describe a video in written word than to just show the video
Last paragraph is really just me defending Mina Le I‘m gonna be fully honest, love her videos
Been thinking about this for a decent minute :linkThink:
perhaps it'd be better to move away from YouTube for fashion content in general?
Ngl YouTube is just as reliable as Discord
Meaning: There‘s people that actually know their way around but there‘s also people who don’t have the slightest idea what they’re talking about but act like they do
The key (as is with basically everything) is to be critical with the things you are told
yeah
i've the video i've linked several times now (the first time was when i'd spent a bunch on used clothing lol)
and... i don't think it's been content with the message of don't buy designer goods, just go to TJ Maxx
i'm not viewing these things as investment pieces, i just like nice looking clothes lmao
And that‘s a totally valid approach!
If it works for you it works for you
you choose how to spend your money
true
at least it's something i'm getting enjoyment out of