gender neutral styling
idk how to phrase this but ive been noticing i don't like that my fits look more masculine and id like them to be gender neutral, idk if it's me tripping but I literally have no idea how to approach this
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Hmm okay, would you be comfortable sharing a few fits?
need to figure out how to link to other thread
also it's odd but for some reason some days I feel like a certain fit or style is appropriate for me and some days I'm like 'nah this isn't even me'
That’s pretty normal I think
I think that's pretty normal! You're definitely not alone
Absolutely, feel ya!
most of my fits collected in that thread are still aestheticly pleasing to me but I think since I collected most of them a few months ago my views changed since then
also because I've been putting on more clothes
Sorry I may be really really stupid
which ones are yours
oh my fits???
I don't like posting them because they all suck lol
Ahhh ok
I know I should put em for show more but waywt doesn't feel like a comfortable place for me to share em lol
sorry bout that
gotcha no you’re fine
Just wanted to make sure
yeah this is normal
I've definitely pivoted more towards more androgynous stuff in the past year but that's just what I like lol
the house style here is kinda boxed in to looking very conventionally masculine bc of the workwear/menswear influences
So I do approach androgyny from the opposite angle
So not everything here may apply to you
Let me dig through and see some more
You aren't tripping, gender can be super simple and whatever or annoyingly complex. I used swing from androg to pretty femme very regularly, and have only recently started to lean heavily into masc silhouettes. Like, over the course of 15 years of actively practicing gender.
It do be like that
imma come at this from the angle of a cis guy ig
the biggest starting point that I found to break away from that look was to move towards a lot more shapeless/flowy fabrics that I feel like a lot of the brands people suggest here stay away from
i think my question is more how do I pivot towards a more androgynous style. one of the mistakes I made with the last thrifting haul is that didn't pay enough attention to what cuts I prefer. I made the same 'oh I'm getting workwear because it's sturdy' mistake but with almost every piece I chose instead of consciously thinking about how it would change the look and silhouette.
awz/joel/billiam here have fits fairly similar to what I wear with extremely drapey brands that are designed to be more unisex
What about pieces that have structure of their own as opposed to relying on the body
Like drapy
Or pleaty
yeah workwear tends to have very rigid construction but you're boxed in unless you start veering into more expensive territory
I'd like to try pleated pants (also quick side note, ive read that 2 pleats aren't recommended for short people? like 1 pleat should be max? It's probably completely false isn't it?)
nah it doesn't matter
Wear what you like
Doesn’t matter lol
I think something one can do to make stuff look more androgynous/less masc is to exaggerate typical menswear silhouettes
I wear hakamas and those have like 20 pleats
anarchy
Oh interesting
You kinda dress masc but in a exaggerated way and that creates distance I feel
tbt the exaggerated structured slp blazers I posted earlier
was originally very prominent in womenswear so it bleeding over to men now muddles it a bit
Dress like a lesbian
Derek (lol) has commented that a lot of modern menswear actually can be derived from lesbian styles of yesteryear
maybe yester a few more years actually
:boi:
yesteryearsssss
CW Gender stuff Sometimes I wish I was afab so I could dress masc and make it look not like im just a cis guy - (this is propably not well formulated, apologies)
I mean
Preaching to the choir lol
Like my personal angle to dressing more androgynous has been to lean into westernwear and I want to do that even more
yeah this but opposite for me lol
Like there are so many westernwear details that are frankly wonderfully fruity and at the same time the whole cowboy image is so superficially masc. Also cowboy boots are just comfortable high heels
wanna switch lol
god if only
so basically an exaggeration of a trope makes it more neutral?
it doesn't apply to every trope does it
no
but in general menswear is pretty restrained a lot of the time
The number of folks I’d switch with is crazy
and breaking out of that restraint feels like an important aspect to looking less like a guy
Tbh a lot of my androgyny is leaning more menswear pieces with women’s wear
So I guess you could also try the other side of the store?
don't think im there yet
Fair enough haha
currently the only way i see as to how to explore this further is to get slightly more oversized stuff but that's probably the mildest form of exploration
so more playing around with silhouette i guess?
hey, small steps are still small steps forward
Getting that stuff right is a journey
other than putting clothes on and seeing if I like a certain silhouette or not, is there a resource to some design principles about silhouette?
not necessarily to follow them
Reddit
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wuz had an old guide ab this
this is propably my fave fit bc the silhouette just makes me happy. So yeah, wider stuff can definitely help, and so can stuff that has a bit of structure. The shoulders of this blazers for example are technically too wide, but that helps to create a nice 'x' silhouette
every other time you ask a question on here do the opposite of what gets recommended, will average out to gender neutral fashion advice.
i will calculate
i don't take what's being recommended at face value, im trying to figure out what applies to me and in general ideas on where can i start exploring different ideas
Yeah, thats a good strategy!
Sometimes its important to immerse oneself in a community and talk and exchange. And then there are phases where you just need to block everyone else out to really figure stuff out for yourself
Inspo is great but can be distracting
Means you’re a lot further ahead than most
like right now my only idea of how to begin this kind of exploration was getting some oversized stuff but now i have additional ways i can start figuring it out
Woo!
🥳
not further when it comes to being insecure about my height but i have to figure that out as well lol
its a bit off topic but how do you manage with it?
like when I try stuff on that looks cool sometimes I get off put because the proportions look all wrong
for example I like how a specific shirt or jacket looks but I'm like "only if my legs were a bit longer it would've looked right"
While we propably have different insecurities about our bodies i get where you come from
Tailoring and figuring out how your proportions are different from the general population to buy accordingly. For example my legs are wayyy longer proportionally than the average person so when I wear high waisted pants I look like I'm wearing overalls. Because of that I look for pants that are designed to have a lower rise because when I wear them they end up giving me the proportions most people are after when they want high waisted pants.
I think partially this is a question of really caring about details. Some stuff you can work by getting a slightly different cut, have something altered or by pairing it differently.
So for you i guess the inverse where you'd want to hunt down pants that are designed to be high rise and look for top items that arent super long
this is probably a loaded question but how do you even figure out your proportions
Also some stuff is just designed for a very idealized body shape and if that stuff does not work for you thats not your fault but shitty design practices
trial and error
for me higher waisted pants and tucking stuff into said pants are the magic sauce
measurements with a tape and working around em
like I measure my legs and waist and chest and calculate the ratio?
there's a trick I've seen where you can try tucking a shirt you like w/ a safety pin and keep raising it until you find the proportions that you think look good
not that deep imo. Measure clothes you like the fit of more than your physical body, and use that as a general guide for future purchases
then measure the shirt length from there
If you have any items that fit you perfectly its wayyy easier to measure those (even better if you can just go to the brand for their listed measurements) and look for similar measurements when buying other things that you want to fit the same
also like trying stuff on is probably gonna be preferable to shopping online for a while
I have things that fit me perfectly but I'm not sure how much it applies when I want to try out different cuts
unfortunately you'll have to look in a mirror
shit my worst enemy
also like fuck the proportionality rules
sorry
to all the proportionality shooters
also not to diminish your feelings in any way, but this is something almost every person has to deal with if they're interested in fashion and pursuing a specific style. Genuinely, everyone deals with this in some way.
someone once told me I'm "not proportional for a feminine image" and fuck em
oh of course! im interested in your experiences with it
tbf I think the rule of thirds is fine
it's just all those stupid advice vids get stuck on 1:2 top:bottom and never want to flip it over
also, you do gotta know the rules to break em
so bad advice ana 🗞️
Like im tall and broad and shit does not fit OTR easily if im looking at anything approaching formalwear. So I spend more time looking, and more money spending, to make sure I'm getting exactly what I want
a lot more spending...
And that's not even approaching my shit with gender lmfao
:hell:
gender is a fuck
10k dead pronouns
formalwear is something I want to get into but that's something I definitely cannot start by online shopping
kill em all 1984
2294759101 posted fits
Just reading thru everything, I'd encourage you to take your time and let yourself really explore things, either by browsing online or trying stuff on in person. The way u carry your gender (if u choose to) will potentially change many times over the course of your life, so just like... being patient with yourself and open to trying something scary or new will take you v far
thank you all for the support
unfortunately itll take time but it has been extremely rewarding so far
it always takes time!
Do you main tailoring/tuxedo type formalwear?
I might have phrased it wrong but even finding suits or blazers is something very rare in the thrift shops I go to
Depending on your inspo and what you like, I think tailoring is a really interesting place to explore various gender vibes. Since tailoring often reads so masc by default, small changes and styling choices can end up making a more profound impact
is this an excuse to poast lesbians in suits
thanks for the suggestion, ive been thinking of getting into sewing so tailoring at home would probably be a huge motivator to do that
a significant portion of my wardrobe is womenswear, looking to incorporate more womenswear could be something that is a good starting point.
most of it is just not being fearful to reach across the aisle to try something that isn't traditionally 'menswear'
one step at a time
but yeah
it is a worthy step to work towards
OOP
as someone who likes tailoring and is also getting into sewing i would tread with caution - i've definitely fucked up a jacket from Goodwill trying to adjust a shoulder seam or whatnot
it's definitely an avenue to explore - things like draping and material choice and styling can counter traditional masculine norms
these (and fudge in general) might be worth a glance; the clothes skew more ivy than some of your inspo but its perhaps approaching this from a different perspective https://discord.com/channels/1116793467654381685/1117803378521673768/1314347655740133428 https://discord.com/channels/1116793467654381685/1117803378521673768/1257469158984257616
https://www.instagram.com/theedwardpark?igsh=MTkydTQ1dWJnNnlrZQ== I really like this profile
Edward (@theedwardpark) • Instagram profile
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Very aspirational to me
beams boy too! their stuff is super cute
When you’re that handsome you can wear anything you want and it will look dashing
(why “lol”)
my 2c: androgyny is fake and gay
i could rant about it for hours, but imo, androgyny really should a vibe, not a style. although i am tired of straight cishet girls telling me i look like harry styles.
although i will say: super high waisted pants
derek guy is a bit of a meme around these parts
why’s that
he liked to talk shit and not post fit
too much to type abt but he's a dweeb.
Anyway what's the diff btwn "vibe" and "style" in ur opinion
ohhh
energy
how you carry yourself
i can dress super like trad ivy style or whatever and ppl are still like “wow that’s so androgynous wowie” bc i cunt it up
yk
So I kinda know what you’re saying
ivy style clothing lends itself to being less gendered imo; sure things like blazers and shirts for women will be constructed differently but (especially now) most people are all wearing the same clothes, sometimes literally
However
this is someone who’s still starting out
Also, they specifically asked for styling rather than vibe
then this
*not intended to denounce anyone's lived experience or methods of self expression, just here as an ivy sme lol
I’m not here to pass judgement on someone’s gender presentation or expression I’m here to help shepherd them on their journey
what does any of that mean
I’m not gonna tell them their energy is off if I don’t know what sort of energy they’re tryna channel ya feel
if they’re like okay fuck yeah let’s do this thing we’re going all in on androgyny we move on vibe
If they want to wear more androgynous clothes I’m just gonna work on that
honestly I wasn't sure how to phrase it
like I didn't think about the difference between styling and vibe
do you want the androgynous vibe?
if so I’m all in let’s do this thing
I still don't know what I want, although I'm feeling a nudge towards less masculine inspired clothes like workwear and more into gender neutral clothing
tbh just because it's workwear doesn't mean it's not neutral, I guess it depends on the cut
i wish i could do that lol
also i apologize for the confusion i genuinely didn't know there's a difference
it's not like a hardline difference, no worries. Different people use different language to talk about fashion & gender expression
Like to me style and vibe are synonymous
Yeah @cornvlad I’m sorry I hope I didn’t come off as hostile or anything
yeah i somewhat think the same
isn’t language wonderful
nope nope nope id like people to know exactly what im thinking with no barriers at all
IMO part of it is people getting stunlocked into calling things "-core" but really u just gotta put shit on that u love. Labels can help you get your bearings, and if they're useful then use them, but they aren't end all be all
I'm gonna drop some inspo pics tho that might be adjacent to what you've been looking at, take whatever helps and ignore what doesn't!
id highly appreciate that
I think one of my issues is not knowing that a specific garment exists and how to describe it
not being able to describe like "this X style suit would look good with a loose dress shirt from X because their cut is etc etc.", I'm guessing this is mostly a lack of experience and inspiration thing tho
carrion’s got you from here
best of luck young buck
yeah it'll come with time. And like, whenever im putting together an outfit or looking for inspo i tend to go 100% on vibes. Is this flowwy & soft, is it hard & angular, does it give me more femme or masc or is it an androg blend, is it every gender or is it no gender lmao
The categories come later for me. Workwear, ivy, darkwear, etc. Silhouette first. But that's me and my process
okay so to go deeper into your thought process, let's say you had to build fit no. 6 from the start, how would you do that
like from the first stage of opening up your closet and deciding that this is the vibe you're going for
Just so we're on the same img, denim jacket with navy button up & brown pants yeah?
yeah
also I think it would help defining the cuts of them, like it doesn't seem like a usual denim jacket or a button up
I have that img saved in my inspo specifically because I really like the cut of the jacket (boxy, oversized, and cropped) and the color combo. I don't love the shoes, but I do love the idea of putting this on with a pair of dainty leather slippers. I also don't love the elastic cuff on the pants, so I'd substitute them for something just as wide but with no cuff and with a full or half break so the pant legs pool a bit on top of the slippers.
I also really like how the button up is softer and less structured than the jacket, and kinda flows underneath the more structured outer layer.
So if I wanted to recreate this with what I had, I'd look for a cropped, boxy, oversized outer layer that's fairly structured, a loose button up, a pair of wide, relaxed fit trousers, and some black leather slippers. The colors are cute but not essential to why I like this for inspo, if that makes sense?
End result could be workwear could be ivy could be edgy darkwear depending on the colors and textures and cuts i choose, but those key points are what i would fixate on for that image
I feel the same with most of your points, I also really like these types of loose buttons ups (idk if it's corny as fuck but I feel like they'd go well with a loose tie if it was a white button up)
my next question is how would you start searching for these specific types of garments
like if you know the specific features of a garment's cut, how would you start looking at different options for what fulfills the specific garment that you want
also what do you mean by fairly structured
nah that could be a sick combo! white flowwy dress shirt with a tie under a black leather jacket goes hard.
It's a part of building up your vocab tbh. I've been entrenched in fashion shit for over 15yrs so the entire process is kinda just ingrained atp. Like if I'm looking for a flowwy white dress shirt I already have a short list of designers I know that make something like what I'm looking for. If I didn't know that, I'd probably browse for oversized dress shirts in a specific material depending on how heavy and flowwy I want and sorta just go from there. I'm also privileged enough to not need to worry overmuch about budget, so any time I spend looking is purely to find something I love.
As in, the jacket has a stiffer, more defined structure than the shirt. Imagine setting the jacket down and how it would resist folding and maintain some of its shape
like how rigid it is because of the material it's made from?
yup!
oh so it's denim in contrast of the material of the button up
yeah ive never thought of building fits like that
Exactly, and the shortness of it (crop) means there's less fabric overall and the shape isn't really able to scrunch up or drape on the body like the fit in 5
aren't they the same cut?
sorry probably a discord thing, im talking abt the double lightwash denim, pearl necklace, brown tote fit
the jacket there hits at/just below the hips, instead of hovering around the waist higher up
ohh i see
thank you for explaining
do you have any inspo resources or accounts that you think might be similar to what you've sent?
I tend to pull most of my inspo from runway shows, fashion week, street styling, and lookbooks from brands i fw the most
this is my fav ig for street styling shots tho
- https://www.instagram.com/uniformdisplay?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==
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