VCore 4 400 belt issue
Nice and even but no second bump and no idea where to start to try and fix that so any help would be much appreciated. The graphs are in order of newest to oldest
285 Replies
with the printer idle how does it feel moving the toolhead around manually, front to back, side to side and around in circles. Does it seems like it feels the same pressure/tension/smoothness as you move it around? In cicles you will feel some differences as the steppers change direction but it should feel even
Thank you I will try that in the morning taking a break from it tonight after the issues
understandable. I had to take a few breaks with mine as well
you will get through it
worst case something is binding and we just need to either loosen the 6 botls holding the x extrusion to the jointers or the jointer plates to the y carriages or one of the y rails to get it lined back up most likely
you can do them one at a time. ping me tomorrow
The ones to the Y are already loose or at least they should be as I had to loosen them to get the gantry even and don't think I tightened them but will double check
if they are loose that may be causing your issue.
get everything tightened and aligned and see what the test looks like
Sister brought kids up for a visit so delayed will update when I can
its all good. Family is most important for anything in life except your own health. Enjoy the day!
So it feels equal to move it around and I don't hear anything that sounds like rubbing I did notice that with my belts on if I try to spin my bearings it's also moving the belt not sure if that's good or bad
@Cruz are there any more updates planned for the commissioning guild for the belts and knowing what to look for or maybe a video showing how the belts should be acting?
@chicken think I found the issue and it's going to probably be a pain to fix but the 3D printed spacers for the XY joiners is touching the belts a little on the right side 🤬
So probably gotta take it out and figure out another way to hold the X gantry I seen a photo of someone else do it as well
Picture?
https://discord.com/channels/582187371529764864/1223286652949106748/1270453722488639649 found the photo of the X gantry without the spacers
You mean of mine? I will have to get my belt back in as it popped out again 😭 not enough hands to hold my belt and get a photo
Yah of yours. Just wondering where it’s rubbing
@chicken It doesn't get jumpy or sound like it it but looks like it
It’s tight in there for sure but once there is some tension it should be clear
Thanks also can you spin your bearings stacks without your belts moving as well? I can't once there tight
If I turn that one by hand my belt will move as well
I suspect none of the bearing stacks should be able to move without the belts moving.
Same with mine. That is how it should be, I’d expect.
I don’t think that is the answer. There is (or should be) room enough. If not, then something is not in its correct place
How/why does it pop out? That should never happen during normal operations. Even if the belts are loose, the belt should stay in its path, perhaps just dropping over the flanges, but not more that that.
Or was it the belt grabber? Did you manage to print/get a new printed head?
Do you have an app so that you could measure the frequency the belts are resonating at, when plucked with the motors off?
The belt tuning graph would indicate that the x gantry is not moving at all. The resonance peak you see is probably only for the head, not the gantry. I would first try to understand whether something could clamp/bind the gantry to the y-rails.
Were you able to do the sanity tests, i.e. step the head 1mm left, right, front, back?
The grabber got snapped at the end again
Nope 👎 I should probably get one
I was asking in the RatOS dev channel if I could maybe do just upper then lower and was told they may be too tight just need time to make the changes stupid working 🤣 and being an adult
Well.. you do one at a time with the graphs. Or you take one off? That would not work 🙂
But yea, there is very little danger when the belts are loose. The main issue would be that the belts might not stay on the pulleys, or they might even slip. But that would be when you can relly see the drooping. If they are even close to being ”straight”, you should be able to get some graphs anyway. But that is old news to you now, let us know how things look when you get the belts loosely assembled
Ya I was wanting to take one off to make sure it wasn't messing up the other
Yea, not possible. Corexy needs the other belt to hold the gantry square.
So how is it going to stay square with IDEX?
I have not looked at how vc4 does that, but i’m hoping others have 🙂
Ok well we can't really look at how RR will do it as it's not out but that was why I thought we could do just one belt at a time 🤣 then learn nope
True, sadly not possible. Bedslingers are easier in that respect
I wonder if my abs need to be dried more so it bonds better and doesn't crack?
What’s the problem?
Cracked the grabber when I accidentally tightened the bolt too much
Ahh. Did you print it on its side or on its back?
Maybe up the temp a little as well to get better bond between layers
Side and I'm at 265C of the 270c max recommended
The one on its back broke before I realized I was over tightening the belts and it broke the back wedge off
So I'm going to reprint the one on back
Well tomorrow I am 🤣 cuz it's late
Good luck
They don’t need to be that tight as long as the heat insert they screw into is flush. Most of the tension is on the screw the belt wraps around. The clip just keeps the belt from sliding out
Oh then that is what I will make sure I can get to fit well thanks 👍
Feel free to ping me tomorrow.
I'm tempted to just get a place to make a PC set honestly 🤣
Nah you can do it.
Thanks 👍
I think someone is thinking about making the front grabbers out of aluminum.
Ya I seen someone talking about that in the vender chat
WOW huge difference when on back after drying
@chicken finally got a good holding one now to reprint it in the RR green ABS when I start doing my minion parts 🤣😿😭
How’s the belt tension now? Have u been able to try the belt tension/ IS graphs with just-slightly-moore-tight-than-drooping belts?
Hopefully I can run it tonight after work yesterday I also wanted to see if I rotated my printer back to how it's going to face once built if the wifi would work again and it was better for a little bit then had issues so moved it back to where I can work on it and plugged cable in and adjust feet so it won't wobble and then it was late so called it a night
@chicken new belt test running now and WOW with my belts loose it's a lot louder at the 5.2k to 6.2k accell range that I can hear it all the way in the other room with my PC
loose enough I think they about to fall off
Blue (lower right belt) looks to be a lot looser than your left top orange belt. Also check your belts are not running on the back of your XY joiners. There should be a 1.5mm distance between the belts and the back of the printed portion of the joiners.
If there isnt it is probably because your X extrusion is not fully inserted the correct distance into one or both joiners.
Thanks for the heads up I will check that once I am back home
Message me later and we can look at the belts. Something is binding it seems like. I’ll walk you through a few things and let see if we can figure it out.
I just got in the door going to check what MFBS said in about an hour I need to let some meds take affect before I switch from a depression to full on rage and stress cuz it sends the blood pressure through the roof
Sounds good. It’s only 930am here so going to get cleaned up and head out to the shop. Should be back online in <45 mins
Thanks 👍 BTW for all the help and stay safe in the workshop
The XY joiners look good
What’s the belt graph look like currently?
Going to run now I been moving belts to make sure they in middle of the pulley with teeth
They really bounce around
@chicken I may need to run once more just to make sure I didn't touch frame trying to capture that video
is that while its moving?
while its measuring belt tension
seems really loose then.
they will move but not that much. again I am not looking at mine top down though as it is on a higher bench
also it does it in multiple different spots depending on where in the test it is
when its finished, home the printer and go into realtime analysis and pluck the belt in the middle on both sides of the toolbelt. Let me know what the first frequency spike hz is
will do
That’s a 500mm machine. It’s loosened up as I thought it was closer to 80 when I tuned it
Left side 40 right about 30
Way low from my understanding. Let me find tg73 doc
but I suspect its only going to take 1/2 turn to get them where they need to be
https://discord.com/channels/582187371529764864/1223286652949106748/1272624643135504405
so on a 400mm machine to get ~6lb tension on the belt and pluckkng between the y jointers and the toolhead you are looking for 82hz
tuned both sides to 80
Tighten up the tension blocks and move the head around a few times or z-tilt it a couple of times and then run the tension graph again
Should I loosen the grub screw on the motor shaft and see if they move up and down now as well?
No those need to be tight both of them. Just make sure the belt is roughly centered. Does not need to be perfect. The belts are going to naturally move a little up and down. They are spiral cut so have a slight angle to them
Not enough to cause problems but enough to see them going up and down a little
this is graph before Z tilt
That’s after tightening the belts?
yes
Something is binding. You belts and close and we can fine tune once we figure out where your first spike is.
When the steppers disabled how does the gantry feel moving front to back and side to side? Fairly even?
It feels fine but i cant ever get belts nicely in the center of the pulleys they always rest at the top no matter what i do
Don’t worry about that for now. If they are fully seated and not riding on the run of a bearing or the pulley gear we are fine for now.
We can tweak it later and fix that.
If you push the gantry to the back is it touching both bearing stacks evenly?
Trying to make sure it’s not skewed
Nope
Nope it’s not touching? I assumed you pushed it from the middle of the gantry correct?
This side my black spacer is touching a bearing stack
Yep pushed at middle also the front not even
Try this. Loosen the 4 screws on each jointer plate that attach it to the y rails
Just a 1/4 turn loose. Then move the gantry back and forth like 5-10x. See if it settles in less skewed
This is the right side
Ok I loosened them now I had them torqued to .95n before if that helps
those I think are supposed to be like 2Nm let me check but that would not be causing this problem
see how the gantry feels as you move it. Does it feel any different from when it was tight?
2.3Nm for m3 screws into the carriage
yes moves easier when loose and now both touch at back
while gently holding it in position tighten the screws. You can hand tigthen to get it tight and then come back with torque wrench as its tough to hold and torque them at the same time
go with the 2 to be safe?
yah
mine need a 2.5 driver so are they m3 or 2.5?
I thought they were m3
they are m3 screws but the head on the cap heads are 2.5mm
😮
ohhhh ok sorry I was about to be like well I got some kinda issue but ok all good so 2 is still safe then
Yah 2nm is safe
I got them in 1.7 to 1.8 hopefully its close enough
thats fine
is the gantry still roughly sqaure?
Still square 👍
belt tension graph time then 🙂
yep rehoming and z tilt
then if its still bad we cry and hope Nero is free when I'm on vacation in September?
Nah there are a few other tricks to try
That you felt a difference in the gantry when you moved it by hand this was at least part of it
Could also make the drive up north to @DGP [Vcore 4 Hybrid 500] at this point I don't have my passport to get into USA as it expired other wise I would ask to bring it down and what you drink so I know what to bring
I wonder if maybe it the XY joiner stacks are too tight?
you are using the toolhead for resonance testing correct?
yep
you would have really had to torque the screws to bind the bearing stacks if all of the spacers are in the right place
for some reason your y spike is not showing up
Maybe performance mode not being on? If it needs more then 2nm i couldnt have as it would be too much pain
I dont think performance mode would make a difference. That the printer is moving in the right directions I would just go ahead and enable it.
as for the tension on the y jointer plates you are close enough. the slight difference is not going to cause what you are seeing
i mean if the stacks need more then 2 for binding
the stacks can go up to like 4nm if i remember correctly as its m5 bolts.
when you had the belts loose last time could you rotate all of the bearings in all of the stacks? just wondering if a spacer or something is missing somewhere. Not sure why you would not see any y spike
No way could I have hit 4nm I would be shocked I will try loosening belts after dinner dinner but im goint to also enable performance mode
yah try performance mode but I think that only helps things like homing, bed mesh, etc.
well in performance mode my Z need some TLC as ouch it was high pitched
ha
The stepper driver 'stepper_z2' has triggered the OTPW flag and may stop working if it gets any hotter. This is an indication of an over temperature condition. This can be caused by a too high current. Please check the stepper driver settings and cooling.
you have the duct covering the drivers/
and the enclosure fans are running?
fans are on yes
how warm is the room the printer is in?
are there a bunch of wires blocking airflow to the z driver heatsinkns?
Not that warm honestly and no wires in the way also I don't remember seeing a duct in the instructions
my parts are moved a little as I stuffed more things in there... you didnt have that black piece that snaps over two fans and covers all 7 drivers on the octopus?
Was wondering what this was for
that should fix your overheating
wont fix your belt tension graphs though
Where in the instructions was that then 🤣
not sure
Well performance mode was the fix wow is that ever close now
Now all you need is that first spike
yah no idea why there is not a first spike though
we can try to see if the y rails are binding by loosening the 6 bolts that hold the 2020 x extrusion to the jointer plates. Its the single screw up top and the two on the bottom. Loosen them and move the gantry back and forth a few times like we did to get it aligned. I like to hold it against the back when I tighten it to make sure things dont get skewed.
Loosen on both sides these two bolts
And then this one on top on both sides
So you got any plans for the first week of September? I'm on vacation and I'm sure my mom would also like to do some site seeing of the north as she grew up in North bay 😜
ok will do that after dinner got to go up before I get yelled at or I be down the rabbit whole and then next thing I know its Monday and I havent eaten or slept lol
😂 and he ran away from the idea of building another but really there wouldn't be much point if the 400 won't go through a door
Done that waiting for PC and then going to home and test
still no second one 😭
Though IS almost looks correct
@chicken think I can see an issue unless that's normal
@chicken My Y is moving even easier now so that's got to be good at least
WELLL SON OF A B they were too tight
Well too tight or one of then is bad
To tight?
I got them at 1nm now and see I got a second peak started
maybe I need those heavy duty bearings after all 🤣 😭
So the m5 bolts for the bearing stacks you have at 1nm? They are supposed to be 4nm.
ya and I now got a second peak but small
getting closer
https://discord.com/channels/582187371529764864/1223286652949106748/1259120323559817246
Tighten up those four m5 bolts on each side further. Can your torque wrench go up to 4nM
the wrench can ya I will go up to 2 and see what changes
When I did them the first time I used a socket wrench so dont know what they were at
ok so I got my peaks almost matching now so going to tighten to 2.5nm if I can on my own if not will need to wait till my mom back from hrlping my sister get kids to bed
It's getting there !
sounds good. Worst case if your wrench will not go that high just tighten it up with a socket again but dont go to crazy. Those are bolds that can take some tension unlike the carriage screws or the linear rail screws. Tighter is better than loose on these to a point.....
now you answer lol jk man hope your doing well
lol its my body that cant take the forces on it the wrench goes to 10nm
Ah
Nope 2.5nm is bad way bad
You sure you are not missing any spacers or anything in those?
I don't have any left so they all got to be in I had to file mine to get them to slide in so maybe a bat batch?
I mean the 3d printed part
Nah the plastic is just a spacer. It’s all metal to metal connections.
ya its got to be bad bearings as that's with them super loose lol
No matter how tight those bolts are it should not be putting pressure on the bearings unless one has a cracked raceway. The spacers and the precision washers put all the pressure on the inner raceway and not on the bearings. Can you check and see if you see all 4 precision washers. It’s two per side it looks like on the gantry. One on each bearing stack where it touches the metal plates. I used my phone and can see I see a silver washer under each one.
The back ones are harder to see. I moved the bed down low and the gantry to the front and it was easier to see
Are none at the top of the stacks?
The top bearing on the gantry? Yes there are two per side, one per stack. This is the front left one
There is always on washer on each bearing stack where it sits against a metal plate. That spaces it off the plate so it cannot rub when you tighten the bolts
The other side of every bearing is one of those metal spacers of various lengths
Oh ok I was like fuck mine is at the top 🤣 and thought it was wrong I was about to cry
Can you see them on the other 3 bearing stacks on the gantry?
And why is your bearing so dirty?
Not sure a few other people have noticed there's doing the same thing
Ok so the 2 left ones are good
Front right looks good
Ignore my broken green part on this side 😭
Yep all 4 are there
Not sure what’s up. I don’t know why tightening those bolts dampens the y spike. Something seems off. You might need the big guns aka mikl and helge to shine a light on that
a night of heavy drinking yesterday so my liver took a beating
hopefully a fun time
yesterday yes today not so much :kekw:
I wonder if its the balls inside of it were bad and are just breaking apart like they are defective
I could see a bad bearing if you were tightening the belts as that would put pressure on the bearing. The bolt with the washers and spacers should only be putting pressure on the inner raceway of the bearing
Nothing on the outside
my belts used to be super tight
Which could wear them but tightening those m5 through bolts gets rid of the y spike which is not tightening your belts. That’s what’s confusing me
they could have inner damage we cant see from before is my thought only one who may know is Helge
upper is the left on correct? so I need to loosen it?
Both belts touch both sides
oh you mean make sure it didnt skew again right will do that
I thought you were asking me if the left bolts only touch upper belt
I was saying both sides have a bearing stack that touches both belts
oh sorry was trying to get peaks matching again
Your bearings stacks are dirty. Perhaps from previously having your belts to tight. You can clean that off by just wiping them with a dry cloth.
The other reason they can get dirty is of they are not freely spinning.
if you lose your belts way off to test those bearings should freely and smoothly turn with light finger pressure.
All the info and advice @chicken has given you is excellent. I didn't read it all.
Have you loosened of all of the screws holding just one of your Y rails off and then run the gantry back and forth to align the two Y rails and then tightened the screws back up, yet?
not the Y rail screws no
From my limited experience so far, the new XY joiners on the VC4s are rigid, good thing I suspect, but also less forgiving of any alignment/binding issues than the less stiff ones on the VC3s.
Yep @chicken has helped very much and im very thankfull
When you tighten them back up start by positioning the gantry near the middle and nip up the middle ones first. Then, move the gantry along in each direction and nip up each screw lightly. Then repeat tightening each one to about 1.5 Nm or thereabouts.
You also don't want to force your gantry against its wishes to hit both front or rear stops at the same time and then do up the gantry bolts to hold it in a position where it is having an argument with its constraints.
Loosen the belts first. Them move the gantry to the front against both end stops. Then release the pressure on it and the do up the bolts each side that hold the extrusion into the XY joiners. You need to do this procedure with loose belts.
When moving the gantry against the front stops with loose belts. If there is more than 1 mm of difference between when each side hits the stops, you may have an alignment issue you need to deal with.
If so let me know and I can give you some steps on this.
thanks I will check that tomorrow hopefully if I get a change to continue working on it
Also take note in your build of the very low torque settings for the Y rails.
Ya I went with the .98 rails themselves as that's what instructions said
What do you input shaper graphs look like currently?
I will upload when I get home from work I started the IEC patch last night
Any idea what this piece is called? I'm hitting the same overheat error and apparently failed to even print this part lol
Nvm. vc4_electronics_duct.stl. In the 'deprecated folder. That would be why I didn't even print it smh lol
It’s depreciated for the new electronics enclosure that uses a 120mm fan. For ones that use the 3 fans on the side you need that duct. It may work fine without it if you have the cover on the enclosure as well
@chicken yeah makes sense. I've got some other stuff attached to mine so I don't plan to even put the cover on honestly...clearly I haven't been paying enough attention didn't even realize there was a 120mm fan version already out lol
I swear that part wasn't even not in deprecated nearly two months ago when I started printing my parts but maybe I'm wrong it's happened before lol
Got it printing now so hopefully that'll fix that error for me
Appreciate the help!
no problem. It will especially if you are set for performance mode.
@chicken that middle block that goes into the X rail I wonder if we really need it or if it can be taken out
middle block?
https://github.com/Rat-Rig/RatRig-PrintedParts/blob/main/V-Core-4.0/PP000274-vc4_xy_spacer_V01_20240327.stl that part I wonder how much we really need it?
GitHub
RatRig-PrintedParts/V-Core-4.0/PP000274-vc4_xy_spacer_V01_20240327....
This repository contains STL files pertaining to all existing, as well as obsolete, 3D-printed elements used in our products. - Rat-Rig/RatRig-PrintedParts
@Cruz @Helge Keck is that part above mostly to keep the T nuts in the rail or is it really needed for something else as when I tighten down the screws that go through it I lose my second peak in the belt tension graph.
It's required for the IDEX oozeguards
other than that it's okay to remove it, I find it weird how those could be responsible for your issues
I am thinking it's something with those four holes maybe no longer being perfectly straight as I had to sand mine so the spacers could fit
Any progress on this? I have same machine and managed to make the same graph as you. I havent sanded anything however so I don't think that part is the problem.
I had to loosen the 8 bolts in the XY joiner stacks to .50nm torque
Accordingly to this- https://github.com/Frix-x/klippain-shaketune/blob/main/docs/macros/compare_belts_responses.md
GitHub
klippain-shaketune/docs/macros/compare_belts_responses.md at main ·...
Klipper streamlined input shaper workflow and calibration tools - Frix-x/klippain-shaketune
That's also a good graph, but I appreciate all the feedback you may have, and if you eventually get it to two spikes, I wanna hear how you did it
It's impossible to cover every scenario and diagnose every belt graph artefact, this is a very complex and sensitive subject, about which we are still exploring and learning, please feel free to submit your feedback
Was able to get the 30ish hz hump back by aligning gantry to rear stops/motor mounts then tensioning belts. Doing it to the front stops as instructions say make a 1 hump graph everything for me.
and without belts?
most times the gantry is unaliged without belts and you try to force it with the belts, resulting in extra binding
or the joiner assemblies are not tight enough and the belt tension deforms the gantry alignment
I've seen both scenarios
Aligned without belts at the front causes binding once tensioned. Soon as I aligned gantry to the rear then tensioned the binding went away and 30hz hump reappeared.
You can get equal belt tension with that gantry aligned and misaligned
I recommend paying more attention to alignment and the actual IS graphs than the belt tension graphs.
I'm not sure. It's like as soon as the belt tension graphs peaks start to equal amplitude the 30hz hump went away and printer made alot of noise when moving on y. So I redid the procedure but pushed gantry to the rear, then tensioned and both peaks are about equal at about 4 1e6 and have a 30hz hump about at 1 1e6. Not sure why setting the initial alignment to the front vs rear makes this difference but it does. I have measure frame too thinking it was a bit longer on 1 side vs the other causing gantry to parallelogram, but they are exactly the same and it's very square measured diagonally.🤔
Maybe the front can shift or bow towards the inside as it doesn't have a bar going across in the middle like the back does?
seriously stop focusing on the belt tension graphs and focus on the IS graphs for belt tuning.
If you align without belts and then get misalignment with belts, it means the belts are of different tension. That or you do not have the corexy belting done correctly :). Measure the tensions with some other tool than the belt graphs. Do that at least initially. If you are not happy with the IS graphs, then by all means do whatever you need to do, but at least make sure you start with a square gantry and equally tensioned belts. For measuring the belt tension, use strumming and read the frequency with a spectrum analyzer app or a guitar tuner or with the RatOS real-time analytics. Or use a mechanical belt measurement tool.
Maybe I should just call that good for my belts and move on?
@chicken thanks for all your help BTW couldn't have gotten this far without your help
Yah it’s not bad. How does shaper graphs look? That’s the most important
they are running now - they may not be the best as I'm still in not fully tide down everywhere
also i need to figure out my 4028 still as I only got 1 set of cables for power
ya they bad lol like really bad
The grandmother down the street has faster accel I think🙄
So what have you done on it recently to try and get the belt graphs clean?
The noise around 100 may be your wires. Try cleaning those up and run it again. Also you are using the toolhead for resonance testing correct?
I put my piano wire on and used tight twist ties to temporary help it while I try to figure my 4028 out
if i filter out the wires i get this
That’s not bad. I would get the wires cleaned up. Trim the belts down a little. If you feel they are in the ballpark cut them down to like 10 teeth sticking out. If not go more than that. Going to be hard to get good graphs with all of that stuff loose
ya i agree wanted my belts done before I zip tie in case its gotta come apart. like when IDEX comes out 😭 . think I could use one of the 3 endstop cables they sent me to power my 4028 or should i save for IDEX?
I thought one of those cables was supposed to be for the 4028. I have so much wire around here that I am not sure what I used. I would expect idex comes with the wires it needs but not sure
Oh in the updated build it does say that now 🤦♂️
Was going to wonder if I could use this speaker wire as well
i also got 18 gauge low voltage wire
@chicken oh 😱 my bed is way bad on bare metal .460 range maybe I should look at that first?
that might be the frame. Do you have a straightedge to check with?
https://docs.ratrig.com/commissioning-guides/v-core-4#build-plate-preparation check out step 4 of the build plate prep
you can try turning that foot in the corner as well. If I remember correctly unscrewing in 2-3 turns and it may get that corner correct. These printers are so big they will sag a little under their own weight. You should level the feet every time you move it.
if it gets worse unscrewing that low corner, try screwing it back in all the way and unscrewing the other 3 corners 2-3 turns
nope so I am going to need to get one none by the sounds of it
it might be perfectly flat. How flat is the surface it is sitting on?
its sitting on an IKEA Hermes table so I would hope its flat
ya I did do the Z tilt I will try that tapping method I just hope its not the metal plate issue that some have had.
try leveling the feet first. I would suspect it would be that over the frame
Foot raised but didn't have time to retest as I had to get ready to go down to sisters and help with kids as brother in law is on night shift
I do not think your printer is ok as it is, that is not what you should be seeing on a vc4. Have you tried tuning the belts with the method described in the article MFBS posted? If so, can you post a video showing your gantry’s neutral position with loose belts? Also, have a look at https://discord.com/channels/582187371529764864/1280587993391824936/1282045404988440637 , it would seem to show a situation somewhat similar to yours.
In your case I’d make sure the frequencies are very close to one another. Before Mikl gets the special tuning mode done, it might be a bit challengin to get the frequencies equal to +-1 %, but that should be your goal.
You should be able to tighten the joiner bolts, but you must reset the neutral position after doing that. If you are not able to tighten and get the second bump in the belt graphs, it means there still is something wrong with the printer.
You should be able to tighten the joiner bolts, but you must reset the neutral position after doing that. If you are not able to tighten and get the second bump in the belt graphs, it means there still is something wrong with the printer.
I'm calling it good there as it's driving me into massive depression to the point where I don't wanna use the machine as it's starting to feel like a lemon of a machine with issue after issue
I have a second one it's just not really big and I know it's something with the XY joiners as when I tighten those down is when it disappears
@chicken foot made no change I think it's the metal plate is bowed
how much did you crank it up? if a few turns did not do anything try like 4 more. If that does not do it I would try the video in the commissioning guide and try to align that corner. Normally the beds have that a bump that goes all the way across. Corners off seem to be the frame, either misaligned or the foot
Was all the way in before
and nothing changed in the heightmap even a little?
mine is printing with this right now. Its hot so its gantry warp but klipper can deal with a lot.
That's with the foot raised changed from .46 to .45
Oh this time it changed for some reason
loosen the quick connectors in the back right corner and tape on it gently to see if can get that corner to lower down.
you also have to do a z-tilt every time as height map does not do that automatically. Klipper does not know if the printer supports auto z leveling or not
This is foot in like the first time but for some reason it changed? I printer didnt sound happy though sounded like an angry washing machine
Oh when I move the feet I need to Z tilt again?
yes
anytime you touch anything you z-tilt as you change the frame and the bed may not be aligned
Oh so I should ignore that .2 one as I didn't Z tilt 😭
you can see from that last graph the two front corners are not level
one is red and one is blue where they should both be the same along with the back middle
bb in a few. dinner time
Oh ok man enjoy your dinner with the family
Well down to .196 thanks for the advice on the feet chicken think part of it is the bed but need a better straight edge to find out 😔
Not sure what’s great for 400mm bed but you are close I think. You could probably play with the feet and loosening that corner and get it a little better. <0.2mm on a 500mm with the milled bed is great.
Do you have the upgraded milled bed?
I did the press down trick as hard as I could (not that hard compared to what some can do) now at 1.65 ya I went for best of the best I could get
Wish I had some better video editing skills so I could make a video of the VCore 4 also did you ever let Cruz know about the foot trick that should definitely be in the build guild
Sure. Your rig, your rules, as ratrig puts it 🙂
Sorry it it came across rude though
I only have one hump in my belt tension graph too and my printer works great.
That is really interesting. The corexy with one belt fixed should form a coupled resonator with two degrees of freedom (head and gantry), and such a system has two natural frequencies. It would be interesting to understand where the other frequency disappears 🤔
One spike is binding or dampened. Something is to tight, to loose or skewed most likely
That would be a logical explanation. However, that does not line up nicely with the fact that MFBS printer works fine. Unless there is some ”microbinding” that is visible when measuring, but not in real printing or with IS graphs.
Might be interesting to see how the excitation force/move affects the results.
One possibilty could of course be that the higher fq is simply outside of the measurement range. That would not be the case with a stock vc4, but don’t know whether it could apply to MFBS printer 🙂
Also, the shaketune documentatio presents a one-hump graph as ”acceptable”, but I have not found a reason why that would be the case. I must be either misunderstanding something or missing some info.
Absolutely no problem. I should be the one to apologize, it is this OCD engineer in me that sometimes kicks in and wants to solve every possible problem there is 😂
Ya I know how that feels cause I want to fix mine properly but the compounding of things going wrong was taking mine in the opposite direction but thank you for trying to help me
It doesn't seem likely the two masses can have the one frequency.
Typical of the graphs I see on my printer.
In the IS graphs, what are the x and y peak fq?
I would need to take a look. Will let you know when I do
Hello have you got a solution for this ? Or do you found the problem ?
ya but mine was probally a one off
What was the problem ?
https://discord.com/channels/582187371529764864/1274541213638197351/1277025878936781063 those 4 bolts I move up and down were too tight
on both sides
To tight ? Don’t know this is possible
Thank you will check this
when I torque them past 1NM the issue comes back so
Ah okay so only 0,9nm ? Or what do you have ?
.9
Okay will try this tomorrow
let me know what you find
Them being too tight wit @Samus VC4 400 IDEX soon - Minion is very likely not the root cause. Most likely the root cause is binding of some sorts, and loosening the screws makes the joiners more compliant, which reduces bindind. Doin belt tensioning as described in https://mazas-3d.notion.site/CoreXY-Belt-and-Gantry-Tuning-with-VCore4-3-ed6eb94671d54c44a7228eb45eeb4cf9?pvs=4 should be able to fix the root cause.
they are bone cold though