First Suitsupply MTM Suit
Hi Everyone,
I'm about to buy my first MTM Suit at Suitsupply. I was initially planning on spending about €500 on an off-the-rack suit, but they didn't have what I was looking for so MTM at 528 gets me much closer to my goal. A couple questions:
1) How important is the weave? I initially wanted a sharkskin, but it seems the cheapest sharkskin is at 648 from VBC instead of the 528 for the Reda Twill
2) How important is the second pair of trousers? I always heard it should be something to take as well, but I've never worn out a suit pants and 200 extra is almost 40% of the entire suit so not sure if I need it.
3) How important is a waistcoat? Once again I've heard to take it just because you'd regret it afterwards. I already have 2 3-piece suits and I tend to wear them without waistcoat in most situations (still fairly junior in my company and a waistcoat always makes you look like you're trying a little too hard)
4) Any other things I should look out for that you guys have regretted in the past?
Excited for it, thanks for your advice!
76 Replies
Pretty much all of these depend on what you want to use the suit for. Sharkskin is a good option as is twill. I'm not familiar with those specific fabrics tho.
I can't imagine needing to get a second pair of pants tbh. If you wear thru these then maybe consider it for your second suit/your tastes will almost certainly have changed by that time anyway.
Waistcoat also heavily depends on what suit you're putting together and what you're going to use it for. In general I think it's totally fine to skip it though. I did a 3-piece for a SuSu MTM way back and I think I've worn it like twice.
Re Q 4: I'm kinda curious what SuSu didn't have OTR that you want as their selection is pretty solid with a lot of different fabrics and fits and such
I wanted a peak lapel single breasted suit in charcoal with either sharkskin or as little a pattern as possible
Peak Lapel seems to have been the limiting factor there, there really isn't too many peak lapel suits. There was one in navy that is a 3-piece but it was more expensive than the custom suit of just getting what I want and unable to get it without the vest.
They do have one that came very close (peak lapel in charcoal but with a slight check pattern), I decided against that one since I already have a suit with a check pattern and want this one as a basic "workhorse" so the less pattern the better.
They also had a peak lapel in mid grey in a herringbone (similar argument there)
Well, if you already fit in their suits well and you want a standard fit but custom cloth and peak lapels, that's easy. They can do some mild tweaks for you too to save on alterations, as part of the MTM price.
To answer your questions, based on how you seem to be using it, though you never answered ll's question of your specific use case:
1. You said you want "sharkskin or as little pattern as possible." There are a few weaves considered plain weave, or plain enough that you will never notice. Sharkskin is kind of sheeny. Twill is not considered a plain weave; it is often sheeny as well, and often is fairly tightly woven and thus usally wears warm. So I would say that weave is "very important" in the sense that you want it to look a certain way and wear a certain way, but there are often multiple similar options to choose from... you just narrow down based on intent then the rest is either a je-ne-sais-quoi feeling you will have when seeing fabric in person or you won't care and you'll choose based on availability, color, price, etc.
2. If you rarely wear a suit, a second pair of trousers is not very important. That said, 200 euro for trousers on a 528 euro suit is a bit much, usually the price split would be more in favor of the jacket, but if that's what they charge I probably would not bother. Unless you plan to wear the suit regularly for many years, or you plan to do things in it like dance, or you are getting a woolen flannel...
3. If you already have 3-piece suits and hardly wear the waistcoat then don't spend money on the waistcoat.
4. As always, I advise to focus on fit first, and don't get deep into customization checklists. Think earnest suit rather than options to prove it's custom.
5. VBC 100s or 110s is great workhorse stuff, you pay a little extra for the brand but it's usually worth it unless you are fairly into fabrics and know the industry well. I don't have much experience with Reda. Also, make sure the weight and breathability line up with what you need. Think about where you wear the suit - outdoors, indoors - and temperatures associated with that - cold, hot, or just inside-HVAC. Don't get a 240gm open weave fabric for outdoor winter wear and don't get a 420gm barathea for wearing in direct summer sunlight, yeah?
if you're inclined/able to, i suggest you try seeing the fabric choices in person before you go through with a purchase. there's a lot that could be said about fabrics (and yes, it is important) but you're mainly looking at three things: sheen, texture, and warmth.
high sheen is more dressy though it makes the suit harder to wear as separates, a bit less versatile for day wear, and IMO can look a bit tacky. sharkskin is superlatively sheen-y and thus i'd be weary of it unless this is a tuxedo or one of many suits you already own
high texture is the opposite of that: it can make a suit a bit more casual, breakable, and subtly elegant. you don't need to go overboard with it, though a subtle texture (i.e., hopsack) definitely makes a suit more interesting compared to a plain worsted
warmth, as said, depends on you. provided it isn't super geared towards one season, i would add that having a fabric that's a bit warmer/cooler isn't the end of the world if you like it
i'd also consider the style you're going for a bit more. you seem to be leaning into a more intense style whereas i'd personally recommend aiming for something a bit more subtle unless you're fully sure of what you want. a brand that I like and which i feel does that well is saman amel (https://www.instagram.com/samanamel/)
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also: i wouldn't be unnecessarily stingy with the price. skimping out and buying a suit you ultimately dont like only to buy another one later on will cost you more in the long run than just buying 1 suit you really like
Thank you guys so much for your insights, that was super helpful!
I'm about to move countries to London for a new job and wanted to treat myself to that a little. I already own a few suits and I do plan on wearing suits every day I am in the office (although these days that means 3 days a week).
The reason I thought about sharkskin is that I saw an absolutely amazing dark grey sharkskin suit worn by Harvey on "suits".
I want the suit to feel like a modern corporate armor, I have a couple casual suits already. This one should be stereotypically British with some amount of shoulder padding, peak lapels and no visible weave structure.
Basically the kind of suit I go for if I need an extra confidence boost in the morning because I have some client meetings that are important.
Just as some background on the suits I already have:
My first two suits were a navy and a charcoal with a very subtle twill, but I got those 5 years ago when I was 18, they fit alright (but not great) and they are made from polyester and viscose (got them cheap but now they aren't really great for anything except as a backup)
My next suit is a charcoal with a structure (no idea what it's called, will send a picture) that one is about 2.5y old and still fits well.
Then I got a blue three-piece with a check (very very nice suit, really like it, but it's something that stands out so you can't really wear it too often)
Then I got good deals on 3 suits I picked up second-hand (all Hugo Boss). One is navy and a little too tight (I'm a EUR50 usually and the suit is 94) the other two are a royal blue 3-piece and a black suit.
Are you married to peak lapels? Even a very british, roped shoulder jacket will usually have notches, not peaks.
All of my suits have notch lapels
I feel like a peak lapel can just be that little something that gives you a more commanding presence
If you want British drape and structure im not sure susu is the way to go. Idt they have any fits that are like that
The washington does look fairly conservative, no?
Structured shoulder with peak lapels, you can go for jetted pockets if you want it more conservative or flap if you want it a little more versatile (I think I'm gonna go for flaps, particularly if you can turn them into jetted pockets
Also, it seems like it's possible to choose lapel width. Would you guys recommend just sticking with the standard or going with a wider or narrower lapel?
I don’t see a fit called the “Washington” from Suit Supply
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I definitely would not recommend the washington cut if it's their slimmest cut, to wear in the UK if your goal is a commanding presence.
Lapel width should follow your body size to some extent. Okay, so someone made a formula out of it, they basically said that the width of the lapel corresponds to half the shoulder-seam-to-shoulder seam measurement, and your target is somewhere around... well this one depends. People have different preferences. As skinny as 30% (not it for me) and as wide as 65% maybe. So for example, for me, my shoulder seam to seam measurement on a clasically-perfect-fitting suit is 16", half that is 8", 50% of that would be 4". I find that 3.5" works fine, 3" is a little on the narrow side but okay, 4" is a little noticeable and stands out a little bit, 4.5" is a little "party" if that makes sense, so that would give me my personal preferred balance of 37.5% to 56.25% which gosh I just hate putting into math like this because it's so clinical. So I guess let me back up a step. Aim for somewhere between a third to half your shoulder width as standard, and play with those numbers to make it slimmer or wider to your preference; go outside those bounds only if you really have a strong vision.
They took it out of their regularly sold suits, if you click on the custom builder it's still there
This is like almost exactly what I want
But they don't have it off the rack in europe it seems
Also not yet sure whether I want padded shoulders. With 108 chest circumference and 48 shoulder width I'm already not the smallest guy
Do you have examples of suits/tailoring looks that you like? It seems like you have a bit of a vision, but pictures obviously get you way way further than anything else
Pretty much this
ah
Not super english imo but it does have more structured but not heavily padded shoulders. Also note the slight roping(I think that's the right term here) on the sleeve attachment
Ok I might not exactly be understanding what english means
I was under the impression that suits are broadly 3 types: Italian (which looks more casual and is the closest fitting with the least structure), American (which looks like a box) and English (which has structure but is still a bit darted)
So given this has structure and doesn't look like a box, I thought it would be english
What is it instead?
This is vvv generally true. But this is such a standard business suit that idt it really falls into any of those categories specifically. It's a conservative business suit imo
I actually know much less what I want than I thought haha
The "American" label generally is referncing Ivy/Trad tailoring which is a distinctly American style, but it's a square more than it is a rectangle. Same with the other distinctions imo
I do know that I want peak lapels (both because I really like seeing them on other people and I really want to have at least one peak lapel suit) and I know that I want something versatile that I can wear at work in finance.
That narrows down colours to charcoal, navy and mid-grey
Then I know I want to be able to wear it all year (except maybe in the height of summer)
So that rules out something like flannel and linen
I haven't really yet made my mind up what fabric or cut I want (except side adjusters on the pants, but I presume that's not really boxing me into any specific style)
@ll.beansandrice🫘 you seem like you have quite a bit of experience, how do you approach choosing the right thing? 🙂
All styles are regional and the more regional you get the more small differences you see. But, in general, Italians favor a relaxed silhouette, Brits favor for their city suits a more structured silhouette, and Americans borrow heavily from both in addition to having come up with some of their own unique styles like the sack cut. Most american suits these days are not the sack cut, but tend to run slim, and borrow from either a more relaxed or more structured look depending on where you shop.
To whit, suitsupply combines slim, with the options for more relaxed (havana) and more structured.
Of course with the internet and travel, styles become more more globalized and blend into each other.
And of those Washington is the most structured followed by lazio, right?
Just so I understand what "structured" means
A british city suit is likely to be charcoal or navy, or lighter than charcoal, so those are good options.
Really annoys me a bit that that suit you linked isn't available off the rack here in Europe
Do you think that the slimmest cut fits you well? I guess that's my question to you. You focus on structure but part of the look is also how slim or wide the cut is.
I don't know what "slim cut" refers to
Is it the width of the lapels?
Ah, okay, then this is very important
So, sizing is kind of arbitrary. A suit might be sized as (eg) 38-32 which means a 38" chest (40" or so jacket circumference around the pits) and 32" waist. But obviously a suit has way more than that, right?
Jacket:
- Shoulder seam to seam
- Length along back from collar bottom to hem, or along front from intersection of collar to hem
- Sleeve length, seam to cuff
- Pit to pit
- Across waist/fastening
Ttrousers:
- Waist
- Inseam
- Rise (front rise, back rise)
- Width across widest portion (your seat)
- Leg opening width
Those are standard measurements you will find. But there's more!
- Sleeve width, sleeve taper
- Leg width at thigh, leg taper
- Collar shape (not really measured)
- Sleeve pitch (not really measured)
- Armhole shape: width and height (often measured only as pit to cuff of sleeve)
No, more or less how trim the waist in the jacket compared to the shoulders and how small the pant legs are. A slimmer cut will have a larger drop from shoulder to waist and smaller pant legs among other things
I just measured everything again. So my physique (right now, after dinner) is 115cm/45in Chest, 79cm/31in Waist, 97cm/38in Hip
It’s hard! The big pieces are knowing in what contexts you will wear the suit. Will it be appropriate? Will you stand out a lot or a little? (Either one is fine, just has to do with your goals in dressing! Some people love the “main character energy” other folks like to be more subtle). And the importantly what you like and will wear and whether you have items that will properly support the suit (shoes that work well, shirts, ties mainly)
So if slim cut just means high drop then yes, a slim cut is probably good (my upper body is fairly "triangle shaped")
So to put it into practice. Let's say you get a 38-32 suit. A slim cut might measure:
- 16.5" shoulder seam to seam, 29" length, 24.5" sleeve, xx sleeve width (sorry don't have a reference), 19.5" pit to pit, 18.5" jacket waist, 16.25" trouser waist, 19.5" trouser seat, 10.5" rise, (inseam irrelevant when new unless you are VERY tall, 37" is standard so you can hem it), 7.5" leg opening
A wide cut might measure:
- 17.5" shoulder seam to seam, 31" length, 25" sleeve, xx sleeve width (sorry don't have a reference, but bigger than above), 20.5" pit to pit, 20" jacket waist, 16.75" trouser waist, 21.5" trouser seat, 11.5" rise, (inseam irrelevant when new unless you are VERY tall, 37" is standard so you can hem it), 9.5" leg opening
Despite being marked the same, one is just wider in most respects than the other. More room, less suppression.
Plus things like extended shoulders, for example
Of course low/mid/high rise is not really on the same axis as slim or full cut, but generally full cut stuff has higher rise than slim.
Measurements go a long way, but I’ll say the gold standard by far is to try on the items as best as possible. The general assumption with MTM is that you WONT get it right the first time. Adjustments and extra tailoring will almost certainly be required
I like "main character energy", I wouldn't go for anything too flashy because I still work in finance, but within reason (and reason mainly means colour here) I do like to give a strong appearance.
So now let's talk about your use case. Brits, and fitting in with a suit. Brits tend to like their suits structured, fuller-cut, and, here's something to note... older british gentlemen tend to be portly. On average. Thus they would not look particularly good in slim cuts and tend to avoid slim cuts.
There is some concern that you might end up in a slim suit where everyone wears full-cut suits and you won't cut the figure you want, essentially.
I might advise showing up for your job and observing what people wear for a week before buying anything, if you want to have a look that fits in rather than goes orthogonal.
It's a big company and people wear everything from polo shirts to well fitting suits
Or, yknow, look up more inspiration for slim suits vs classic-cut suits vs full-cut suits so you know what to look for
Because it will be very hard to communicate to your fitter what you want if you don't have the words to express it, right?
Yeah I think your direction is well within bounds based on what you’ve said
Older people tend to have a bit more fabric in their suits within my company
He has pics of the actual look he wants to replicate. Which is infinitely better imo
Yeah that's fair
Younger people (particularly the ones that work out) do like showing that their body has a certain shape which older people mostly can't achieve
The photo above does not look slim to me, it doesn't really look what a "Washington" model is. Of course susu can take elements from one and elements from another and combine them MTM.
It is p slim haha
On the slim side, but the washington model is suitsupply's slimmest ...
You are correct
But I do like it slimmer than the picture I showed (if slim means a higher difference between chest and midsection and therefore more "tapering")
True
The question I'm more worried about right now is that my ideas could also lead to me just going comically overboard
I hope the suitsupply guy can catch that before it happens 😄
Yeah, which is why I would steer you towards a cut that is "merely slim" instead of "the slimmest a company known for slim suits sells" haha
Like, I do like that I'm in great shape because I go to the gym 6 days a week and I do like to show it. But if I combine a slim suit with a wide peak lapel and padded shoulders....
I might look like I'm trying to audition for a superhero movie rather than being serious
He is wearing fairly slim suits, but he's also a different age so can't go as slim
This is about the level of slim I'd like
Now I have no idea if that is "the washington" or "the lazio", but it does look fairly slim
Well, it is neither, it is a suit by Tom Ford
But which is closer is the question 😄
I think you'll end up okay tbh. I will mention that I think BOTH of those suits are too slim in the waist because there's pulling at the button. But idt the Washington cut will be that bad and a waist adjustment is fairly easy so long as the sleeves and pants aren't too slim on you for example
The sleeves honestly could become an issue
They should catch that in the fitting
They can adjust sleeve width right?
What you can do tho is try on the OTR cuts/sizes they have and see if any of those get close
take pictures: front, sides, back standing naturally with your arms by your sides (get someone else to take the pics) and we can help diagnose style and fit stuff
One of those cuts might work tbh
The Washington just looks the best on the website
At least from my perspective
But I don't even know whether they have a Washington pattern for fitting, they don't sell it OTR anymore
The more pressing question (because that is something I have to decide and that the sales guy can't help with) is what fabric I want
The sharkskin looks great, but 648 for a suit is really stretching it for me
I'd look at their books in person. They will look super different online.
When I got my wedding suit from Hall Madden they sent me fabric samples and I messed around with them basically all weekend. Seeing how they felt, looked in different lighting. Comparing them against the shoes I was planning to wear, etc.
Actually the suit I was talking about is fairly slim
Again, I funnily enough think it's too slim in the waist for his body. You can see the pulling at the button
And no it's not a pinstripe those are stripes from the pixels, netflix doesn't let me screen grab
What pattern would you suggest for a standard business suit in charcoal (the kind I'm looking for)?
I mean I don't have a billion options at the entry level price, these are the options
Hahaha now I'm reconsidering whether I want peak after all
Definitely no stretch.
Tropical wool is best for warm weather. That said, if you spend most of your time indoors and you run warm, then tropical wool can be fine for all seasons.
So I'd go for #2 or 3 if those were my choices but you should really see the cloth in person.
Have you also looked at ebay for secondhand? Harvey wears a lot of Tom Ford suits iirc and you can find suits like that with peak lapels, structured shoulders on ebay
Okay everyone, quick update:
Just ordered the suit and am very happy with my choice. Went with Straight Peak Lapel, lightly padded shoulder (suitsupply guy cautioned against going with fully structured), fabric was the Dark Grey Pure Wool S110's, slightly lower buttonhole, slightly higher rise (I have fairly short legs apparently and it balances things out) and side adjusters
Nice! Send pics once it arrives and again once fitting/tailoring is done
Oh they'll send directly to store and I'll tailor and fit right there 🙂