Upgrade to Ratos 2 possible?
I just realized I am still running RatOS 1.2.4, used a manual install because I couldn't get a Raspi and then installed manually using a doc I found.
So I cannot just flash an image for a Raspi because I don't have one.
Is there a way to upgrade RatOS to V2?
If that's not possible, the reason to do so is using the configurator in order to set up an EBB36 toolboard. Can I achieve this in another way?
thank you!
69 Replies
no, you cannot upgrade (that is why it is version 2, to indicate incompatibility with the 1.x versions). Unless there is some feature you really need that you currently don't have you can just stick with the 1.x version (version2 is still in alpha anyway)
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
seems I need to use 2.0 in order to configure the EBB36 - is there a way to do so in 1.24?
you dont need to have 2.0
2.0 just takes work of you.
you can just setup your own config for the EBB in the meantime
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
That would be the best option, to just use the EBB36 with my existing install. However, I found different descriptions to do that, and then am referred to the voroon discord and so on. stuck with this for days.
most important question: what to I really need to flash with which firmware - in order to use USB as recommended in the blog by @miklschmidt
you just need to flash klipper on it
just the manual way of compiling it etc.
if thats too much, I would maybe just suggest to wait for the 2.0 stable version
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
It = the ebb?
yes
harsh-harlequin•3y ago
everyone needs use 2.0 because " v1.x will continue to get moonraker/klipper compatibility fixes for 3 months from the release of v2.0"
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
so, I compiled the klipper.bin file using the settings from BTT. then I flashed it with
sudo dfu-util -a 0 -D ~/klipper/out/klipper.bin --dfuse-address 0x08000000:force:mass-erase:leave -d 0483:df11
After uploading I get an error saying
"File downloaded successfully
dfu-util: Error during download get_status"
which according to someone here in the discord shouldn't be an issue as the download itself was indicated successful.
disconnected and reconnected the EBB to USB (the jumper for USB power is still on it, is that correct?), but lsusb doesn't show it
and this is not cool. If you haven't a Raspi like me (and probably several others who spent significant money on that printer) then you're f'ed because miklschmidt says - no resources to maintain something else. but this is another, really frustrating topic.
harsh-harlequin•3y ago
Sorry I viewed this a a positive. I see in your situation it is not. again, sorry.
RatOS is a community project mainly done by Mikkel.
he is doing it for free for the community to provide premade configs etc.
you are not forced to use RatOS, RatOS is nothing special or unique that is required to run a RR printer.
it simply provides pre-made configs and simple setup with auto updates.
you dont have to update a printer if its running fine
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
okay, I was under the impression that RatOS is a part of (and therefore USP) a Ratrig printer.
no
its just Mainsail plus Klipper plus Moonraker with preconfigured stuff and some quality of life features like auto flashing
since 2.0 is a huge change in some parts there will be a break in backwards compatibility.
thats why he would have to maintain two version, which is not feasable for a project run almost exclusively by him.
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
which is fine.
and therefor will just be 3 months for 1.x of updates
if you dont update past that point your 1.x will run forever really
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
But see it from my perspective. You look at ratrig printers, look at the docs, try to gather as much as possible information if that's the right machine, see ratos referenced when you dive into the topic.
why should I be kept from updates? I really see the point that as a volunteer project I cannot go and demand something.
you are not kept from updates actually
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
so stuff is developed to benefit Ratrig customers and I have to look from outside because I won't / can't shell out another 150 euros for an RPi?
you are kept from the guarantee that future Klipper/Moonraker updates won't break your RatOS configs
you can always update, you can always fix the issues yourself
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
that's only partly true, because when I ask for help here, the help refers to ratos. because (rightly) everyone assumes I should be using RatOS.
well by fixing yourself I mean yourself, that Mikkel won't give you direct support, I think is natural after its End of Life
others can still help you in #klipper or so
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
otherwise I'll be referred to any generic other aources, which might or might not bve relevant for me to figure out if this applies to my machine.
I'm not angry at miklschmidt, really. It's great what he does. I am pissed that I wasn't made aware by Ratrig that this great project (they refer to this discord for support!) is only usable with a specific piece of hardware that's nowhere to get or that I'm being scalped for.
also about the pi thing.
you are not forced to run this on a Pi.
the provided RatOS image is only Pi compatible yes but the configs etc all exist for you to take
you might just end up with a lack of auto flashing or so
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
I know I could buy a Banana M5. Looked into this already. You know why I am not byung this? Because it's not a Pi, and at some point someone might say "Well, we don't support this, why don't you use a Pi?". I don't want to do science to use and improve my printer. Like the EBB36 config which iss my topic now.
I mean I cant really comment on if you feel like RatOS is something official or required.
For me the first two points on the RatOS docu kinda explain clearly what RatOS is and who develops it
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
ah really?
Well, we don't support thisI mean yea, if you want to use RatOS and don't have a Pi, there can't be support for you in regards to RatOS. Mikkel wouldn't have time to give everybody Klipper support. As I said before others can still help you in #klipper
What is RatOS? | RatOS
RatOS is a preconfigured Raspberry Pi image that aims to make it as painless as possible to get Klipper, Moonraker, Mainsail and KlipperScreen up and running on your printer, via an easy to use, modular configuration. It is developed and maintained by Mikkel Schmidt (miklschmidt#2036 on the Rat Rig Unofficial Discord).
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
klipper support might be a bit generic.
its all just klipper
connecting a EBB to a RR, to a Voron, or Ender 3 with Klipper is all the same
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
come on, that's splitting hairs. you have to read that intentional to understand taht this is not from Ratrig officially. I don't know who he is and if he works for Ratrig or not. My company names individual contributors on their publications and projects. it's on RATRIG.COM
not exactly because if you follow your link and then go to point #2 you see this
and below that is the link to what I posted above
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
look, you can argue forth and back and I am curious to see if you would take the same stance if it was about another complex project you're looking up to build.
before starting this thread I asked in the german support group about the correct way to do this. helge, who for sure is one of the regulars here did... recoomend using the configurator in Ratos 2
2.0 stable would be the best choice yes.
but its not stable yet, if you use it now and have issues that are not actual dev issues, you likely won't get support either.
and there is still no guarantee that you will have to redo the whole Pi image with 2.0 stable again
V1.x and v2 runs on the same hardware, why is it frustrating to you that i won’t keep supporting old software when there’s litterally no hardware requirements for updating?
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
I really don't care about the Version of Ratos. it's great and I would be happy to use it, obviously I can't in the future. And I can accept this, I have been using klipper and mainsail before. But I won't change my opinion that ratrig doesn't make clear it's not their project, or that Mikl doesn't work for them. They happily take the USP (and additional sale in my case) it gives, but I am lost with that situation.
But I can't get this EBB36 to show up,
Why can’t you use it in the future?
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
thanks for chiming in, miklschmidt. the hardware requirement is a raspberry which I don't have. Please read what I wrote above, I am not attacking you or your work
If I could wish for something then it would be an installer script that runs on any debian based system, no matter if raspbian or debian. but again, I uderstand that this is your project.
Aha i see. That’s easier said than done.
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
I can imagine, that's why I am not asking for it
The project would get nowhere if i had to support all kinds of random hardware.
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
I am frustrated with Ratrig.
I’m not really sure why?
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
I get all these points. I work with devs, and would be happy I could do what they do.
because it's very subtly to see that RatOS is not their project which they take responsibility for. but when you look at the product, the documentation and so on it looks like they have a really great package. which it is because of your work.
I will point out it is like that with EVA as well. EVA is controlled by another development team outside of ratrig
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
and then when I come here with questions about my ratrig printer, all answers refer to RatOS. Which makes sense.
that's a good point, but at least for me: I knew EVA before, it has it's own page. Ratos information is prominent on ratrig.com
Well we’re both in the dev team. Efforts are coordinated.
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
that's nothing I can see from the outside with reasonable research. and it shouldn't matter, because when you're the only one working on RatOS then you're the only one.
but in the end I think this discussion is stealing everyone time and won't get us anywhere.
I have a lot of help from the community
Not as long as there’s nothing concrete for me to act on. I’m not sure what to improve exactly.
Is the problem that you think there should be more devs on RatOS?
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
in the end no one should be depending on a (hard to get and or overpriced) Raspi in order to use Ratos, as long as RatRig doesn't make it super clear that it's not part of THEIR package.
I understood that you don't have the resources to maintain more hardware. That's fine, although I only see software dependencies as long it's something apt-based (I am not a dev, might be wrong!). And you do support "other hardware" in terms of Vorons.
have an appointment now, will answer more specific later
There was a poll about this: https://discord.com/channels/582187371529764864/924364930809995314/1022447856050765845
Those were the options.
Rat rig used to supply Pi’s and will again. I totally agree with you that the product page is a mess though, i will move that up the chain.
It does show up currently on the standard kit when you hit the configure button.
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
I voted "don't need a raspi" back then if I remember correctly. Why? Because I have so many other computers lying around, which I use for virtualization and all kinds of stuff. So why use a raspi, when I have a low power NUC at hand. WHich has more power than a raspi, resale value close to nothing, for myself I don't see why I should burn money on something single purpose, less powerful which wouldn't even run obico... but that's just about my point of view back then.
Getting back to the question if there's something specific I believe you (in a perfect world supported by Ratrig) could / should act on: When the raspi image is built from scratch, is this more than scripts installing / compiling stuff? I see watchtower in the docker-compose and as far as I know that's nothing more than sophisticated package and install management, right? So if I go though all the files I'd probably find the recipe(?) that's used and could try and rebuild / reuse it. But maybe there is an easier way? Maybe a dockerfile in addition to the raspi image? Something that can be consumed by average nerds and is done by most of the projects I am using.
That’s exactly what you’d do, yes.
the way the image is currently built is as a custompi image (https://github.com/guysoft/CustomPiOS). I tried to simply replace that raspberry image with another debian image when I was trying to create a alternative using an orangepi as an example. Unfortunately it broke in very weird ways. I eventually made a POC by installing everything manually but it is less than ideal and now that moonraker went and changed a bunch of things you can't really follow it anymore anyway. But in case you are interested https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lK72PjkVPiWZUJlqZ9V5Jjo5bSF2hScH2MJbaES67rE/edit?usp=sharing
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
which of the many things I wrote do you refer to?
This is a great doc which I used for the install back then. Hopefully I'll find time in the next days to figure out if it also works for 2.0
I doubt it
as I already mentioned the changes to moonraker changed a lot. Kiauh is still working on automating it all again
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
I'm not sure about the sentiment of your answer. I was giving an answer on your point: "Not as long as there’s nothing concrete for me to act on. I’m not sure what to improve exactly." maybe I got it wrong and you weren't really asking.
that's too bad. but thank you for saving me the time to try this.
Just pointing out that it isn't as simple as it first appears to support images outside of raspberry pi
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
okay, got that. I will go the kiauh route as I did in the past, and also - like in the past - compile the firmware manually once I will / need to move away from RatOS
About going through the image generation scripts to reproduce it for a different platform. Some will need adaptation.
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
okay I see, that's probably outside my capabilities if it has more than low complexity. but thank you for answering this.
If it was easy I would’ve done it already 🙂
@icke6190 the pi's are over priced for sure, but it is what it is. You are choosing to not over pay for one, but because of that choice, you are adding a lot of potential headaches and possibly extra work in exchange. In the end I would say that over paying for a pi, is a cheaper alternative to the path you are choosing. Time is money also.
metropolitan-bronzeOP•3y ago
Did you carefully read the whole thread? Are you sure you understand my main point?
Availability of RPi worldwide is a huge issue. Luckily - being in Germany - I was able to order a CM4 yesterday, and borrowed an RPi 3 for the days until it arrives.
But everything has been said already, no need to re-start the discussion.
The issue is widespread among many electronic devices. The supply can't meet demand and prices have surged. However, I can currently find pi's all over the internet. They are expensive I agree. You were also not happy because you already own similar devices and didn't see why you needed a pi. The answer is you don't but it will require quite a lot of study and effort to set up klipper from scratch vs. using ratos which is a plug and play solution. I merely suggested that a person has a choice, and it's still true. They can overpay for a pi, or they can set up klipper manually for their printer. For me time is money, and two to three hundred dollars wouldn't cover my time cost for such an endeavor as I would have to learn quite a lot to install klipper manually. Depending on how a person views their own time's worth should be able to aid them in the decision. Sorry for butting in I was just trying to frame it. Didn't know you solved it.