VC4 500 Hybrid - 2 close peaks on Y
I just got my hybrid belts on after finally getting decent graphs from corexy. I haven't seen a graph like this come up in here before so I'm not really sure where I need to start my next steps of troubleshooting.
I was able to find a few leads on the double peaks from the shaketune github. One was that they can come from a wobbly table but I'm pretty confident it's not a factor. The top is a steel plate 28mm thick and doesn't like to move.
Another suggestion is frame squaring. I think the frame is about as square as I'll get at this point. Beacon gantry twist macro has ranged from -43 to -51 um on recent runs and bed mesh range was .288 on my last run.
I've adjusted the hybrid belts and both are 50 Hz from the Gates belt app. Corexy and hybrid belts seem centered on the idlers and pulleys and I don't see any obvious binding. I only have the rear panel on currently. Looking for some suggestions where to go to get this figured out.
I've adjusted the hybrid belts and both are 50 Hz from the Gates belt app. Corexy and hybrid belts seem centered on the idlers and pulleys and I don't see any obvious binding. I only have the rear panel on currently. Looking for some suggestions where to go to get this figured out.
62 Replies
You mean the belt tension for the upper and lower belts was good?
Could be something loose in the tool head wires as well
Could also use the real time analyst tool and us something in the 65-70 hz and try to feel what's vibrating
Yes, upper and lower were good before I added the hybrid belts.
I'll try the real time tools tonight to maybe narrow it down but now I have a clicking from the left rear I need to isolate.
The rat logo needs a partner - I propose a mole for all the whack a mole games we play getting these running well
Once that small one is gone the shaper may be able to then correct for one of the peaks then you can try to find the other
I suspect your hybrid belts are not tight enough and you are actually seeing two different Y spikes, one from the hybrid belts and one from the coreXY. Hybrid belts are run tighter than coreXY belts. Give them a little snug up and see if you see things clean up
Hybrid belts are finicky. Added more tension and they started to pull out from the clamp. The belt teeth were interlocked but adding tension managed to overcome that until they slid apart 🤦♂️
This is on my reprinted part since the RR one that came with the kit had a layer separation
Have had that happen many times 😿 so I know the pain
is your part printed a little to large? is your slicer trying to deal with contraction by increasing the size? Mine where a pain to get the belts in as they were so tight. They were the stock rr ones
I'll have to check the belt path dimensions now but overall it measured very close to the RR part. Fractional mm difference so it fit the carriage correctly
It looks better in green than black, similar to the motor stacks
was the belt easy to get in or really tough to get the teeth to lock in? I had to use my finger nail or a plastic scraper to get the belt fully seated
I dont know how my belt would ever come out short of it breaking
I had to smash them together to get them to fit
strange. I would have thought they would not slip out as you tensioned it. My hybrid belts are a lot tighter than my corexy ones to
I'll reprint one at like 98.5% tonight to see if that helps
maybe try three in like 0.5% increments. I found 1/2% is big on certain things
yah I dont see how mine would do that
Well, it can't come out further with the tensioner maxed out
you can add an advanced modifier per object and change the xy compenstation size so you could print them all at the same time. I am using PS but I suspect Orca and SS does the same thing
60Hz
even if thats enough, and I am not sure it is, those blocks are dampening your graph on y for sure and could be causing the dual spike like that
Orca and p1s. I'll fiddle with it later
do you still have the RR block? if its not fully split can you pop the belt in one side and see how tight it is so you atleast get an idea of what it should be like?
I printed two for color matching... The other side is fine
are the teeth ok on the belt?
Yes, teeth are still good, no fraying
I'll try to reduce it... So weird that the other side is fine, printed on the same plate, same settings
Did you make sure part cooling was off when printing? I do that to make sure everything shrinks the same amount
i leave part cooling off for the first 4-5 layers on abs, then 20% fan after that
Ya so I wonder if your cooling fan pushes more air to one side or the other
Reduced size and belt still slipped out. New part was small enough to make fitment on the carriage tough. I'm probably not using enough walls or infill and it's bending just enough to lose tension. Any recommendations on increasing strength?
You did the 4 walls they wanted?
Infill at 20%?
No cooling fan
5C under the max temp
Dry filament
If you got all those there is no way it should be internally bending
yep, all of the above...except infill was 25%
i'm apparently put my feeler gauges on a permanent loan to a friend so i'm going to compare inside belt path dims tomorrow when i get em back
i'm also going to try a few more at slightly different sizes tonight to see if i get lucky and get one right
shouldn't be luck based but that's been my life lately :kekpain:
Any chance your printer is under extruding and not making the print thick enough?
I know that feeling way to well 😿 so good luck 🤞
Oh I had thought you said you had the fan on before my bad 😞
I got the hybrid belts on last night but am still getting similar distinct peaks on Y. I'm going to assume it's the upper left motor or path dragging somewhere
I'm going to try a few prints this week to see the results and may have to tear down the corner and check the bearings and pulley to see if i missed a shim or 🤷♂️
You did take the second carriage off correct?
yep, in my part sorter
Ok that's good I know some of us thought we could keep it on as we were going to build IDEX but we learned the hard way that no it's gotta come off until IDEX is ready :pepehands:
I finally got it figured out on Y, but a few more tweaks for X.
turns out that the right rear belt was climbing the idler just a little and would get pinched by the bearing flange
rerouted everything and it seems good now
Ya I kinda feel those stacks could be a little more forgiving for first time builders by making them a little taller
those are stock bearing sizes so not a ton of options there. The heavy duty idlers look to have a little more wall on them
A tiny bit more clearance between the extrusions and a touch more height could help. Or swap the small bushing to the top and the bigger one to the middle.
Catching the flange puts it right into the extrusion and kinda gets stuck until you force it all the way into the stack
Well the good news is you found your issue ☺️
are you using beacon or the toolboard for your resonance testing?
Good question. I think it's toolhead but I'll verify when I get back home
verify its toolhead. I was getting some weird z in one of my graphs and it was due to beacon. Mikl recommends using the toolboard adxl
it's on toolhead. i think i've gotta check my wiring and zipties on the toolhead. the realtime analysis showed a lot of changes in the graph from touching the (far too large) part fan connector
What was this 68hz peak on Y? I have exactly the same on my Hybrid VC4.
i think it had to do with the belt sitting on the flange of the bearing stack. make sure it's all the way down
if it's not, it'll still run but can pinch into the frame extrusion
honestly though, i still have a few gremlins to shake out so don't treat that as gospel
i got really decent shaper results, but needed to rebuild it, because the x Rail was faulty, and now i get this 68hz peak. really annoying. That were my old results.
and now i am getting this:
did your faulty x rail have a click or sticking point at the center? i'm wondering if that might be related
my fault x rail got play after some days. the carriage had play in x and y.
but i replaced it, and now get this 68hz peak
my only other obvious vibrations came from the part fan connector and the tensioning screw on the orbiter being a little loose
So it should be a problem with the upper belt
i used an inspection boroscope to find the back right idler was my trouble. it's unlikely but possible it's fully engaged but still slightly on the edge of the idler flange
i checked it, but it looked good
but it is 100% the same frequenz as you had
i'll run some more tests tonight when i'm home but the main improvement came after i realigned the belts. wish i had more to suggest
what exactly do you mean with realigned?^^
i unscrewed the pulley on the left then pulled the belt back and forth without it connected to the toolhead to get it back fully into the idler on the right. the pulley may have been higher than it should have been
so there was a very small slope between corners. i think i leveled it back out
ahh i checked already the pulleys that the belt is in the middle of the pulley. above and under the belt there are maybe 2/10 mm space, so they dont touch the idler flange
pulley flange*
only the set screw in the pulley, i didn't redo the whole setup
:8439_BlobosThinkos: i'll try to track my steps tonight, hopefully i can suggest something later
i think the problems are coming from either the umbillical being lose or the molex microfit connector moving
the connector is, IMO, too large. so if it's not placed perfectly, it's going to cause some asymmetry in resonances.
i'm unfortunately stuck for a day or two since i broke a wire in the crimp in the microfit. they don't like to come out easily so i'm either waiting for a new connector or a depinning tool
i think it is really belt bath related.but i will check the molex connector
