VC4 300 unenclosed (just back panel)
Have had some issues trying to get the printer to have a semi decent graph on the resonance test. Keep having issues with unsynced resonance and split tips.
Ive leveled the gantry a few times and made sure that the y rails are decently in the middle of the extrusions
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im just gonna include a few ones here to not bog down the thread but this one was before the latest realignment.
I loosened the belts a bit and aligned em with the back of the machine by tightening/loosening the belts. After which i aligned one of the z rails as noted in another thread i saw here.
Im starting to think that one of my belts is longer than the other (i thought i confirmed that they were in fact the same but now im unsure) Am i right in thinking that the lower belt might be a tad longer?
I checked the gantry alignment after this below test just to try and confirm that it was still leveled and it looked like it was
thought id include some shaper graphs in they give any more info to anyone
ran the test again after the shaper graphs and got a different result
I then tried loosening the top belt one tooth and realigned the gantry
which resulted in this
after more fiddling this is where ive ended up for now
should have left thing well enough alone but back we are just had to fix a few small things.
Now it looks like this again.
left image after aligning. Right tensioning a quarter turn
tensioned a quarter more and ended up with this
loosened slightly and realigned the gantry
loosened a bit more
the gantry is square against the back correct? If so you can try aligning one of the y rails to see if its binding. Thats what solved the last bit of my problem as something was binding and dampening one of my belts and causing some strange noise elsewhere. How I did this was loosened my lef Y rail, leaving the belts fully tensioned. Once it was loose I pushed the gantry all the way against the y endstop and loosely tightened the first screw. I then moved the gantry all the way to the back and carefuly brought it back to the front and then left it slighty in front of the 2nd screw. I then used a torque screw driver to fully tighten the first screw and then did the 2nd screw and kept moving the gantry out and tightened a single screw at a time until I was done. That cleared up the last bit of my problems
hmm did that before which was what got me the second spike back. Might just do it again if i cant figure anything else out
swapped the rail guide.
looks a bit better
progress
good as its gonna get i think
yeah that will have to do
600 accel worse than the more spikey graph earlier which is a bit weird but hey ho
Something is binding up as I am getting better y accel on a 500 than that. Is the gantry square if it’s pushed to the back? If so, and this may cause you to take a few steps back, loosen the 4 screws on each sides jointer plates to the y carriages and move the gantry back and forth a few times and then check if it’s still square. If it is tighten it back up and rerun your tests. If not slightly loosen the tension on the side that is pulled away from touching in the back. Tighten everything up, including the set screws on the tension blocks and rerun your tests.
aye i just looked at some comments and saw "you need higher on mzv"
that looks better. What did you do?
this is the new one
tensioned it MOAR
MOAR is better 🙂
and i also noticed that i had shaken an tooth loose on the front clamps
so i fixed that
tis the resonance
better. still something in that 90-95 hz that is off and causing the spike on your y graph I suspect. If you go to real time and select A for the upper belt and slide the oscillator up till you see a spike at 95hz (most likely you will be near 95hz on the oscillator) can you pinpoint what is causing that?
sorry I forget if I asked this as I have talked to a ton of folks about graphs recently, have you greased your X and Y rails well?
no time atm but ive tried and the only thing that seems to help is touching the umbilical
you have it tie strapped nice and tight?
yes
I put a small piece of foam on the back side of the USB c connector and a very small piece in the power connector to stop them rattling. It helped a little
did that as well after i saw you post 🙂
what about taking the filament tube out and let it swing on its own. I have mine only connected at the top.
assuming screws on the toolboard to its mount are tight?
yes 🙂
connected at the top?
could try that
it seems to be bending things in maybe strange ways. Completely separate the two and try your graph again. Worst case its a quick test
yeah worth a try ill have a look at it when i get home again on sunday ^^
thanks for the help!
no problem. safe travels
btw do you know if there are any examples of accels for the different sizes somewhere?
ive only seen examples for the 500
not that I have seen for VC4. i suspect there are for VC3 though and this should be the same or better
aight ill have to do a bit of a google later
or poke mikl i guess he seems to know all of the things
Nvm took a measure while i waited
Theres a decrease around 90-100 it might actually have helped quite a bit
And maybe ill have to look at the top belt the freq is a bit below the blue maybe it shaked itself out of alignment. Abit
I think you are close to probably good enough 🙂
while the graphs look better not it doesnt seem to have helped in the accel department
but thats prob fine
or well not in the y department i gained a 800 or so in X speed
not sure what to expect for a 300mm you beat my 500mm. I think I was X 15500 MZV and 3300 MZV on Y before hybrid
Got some answers from a few persons with 400 as well and i seemed to be around one k above em in y so it seems atleast semi reasonable
The x is prob a bit low but meh
@chicken
so you are using the toolboard for testing right? you can check in the configurator. Beacon picks up wierd resonances due to its location and small mounting points and is not recommended to use for this stuff
i am yes
the screws on the toolboard tight and the long screw that goes through the umbilical mount that the toolboard is attached to tight as well?
yep and yep
strange. No loose wires, etc?
nope
just went over and torqued everything down again
or well no loose wired on the toolhead
there is a few over in the electronics box. ex the hybrid motor cables
nah should not be picking that up.
if you go into the real time tool and start the test, select the Y motion and then turn the hz slider up slowly until you see a spike that lines up to what you see on the y shaper graph
there is a screw or 2 i have not been able to check since i stripped a few screws over on the hotend
your spike was about 92hz and most likely it will be 92hz causing that spike but could be something else
running a fresh measurement now
one thing I had was the two screws holding the 4028 fan that are buried under the umbilical mount were not fully tightened
so once you get that spike showing up on the real time tool, start holding, pushing, pulling, etc to see if you can get it to lower down
cant say if ive checked that
it sucks to check :/
yeah seema a bit of a pain
might also be that the parts i printed for the xy joiners arent up to snuff
so i printed new ones to see if that helps when i tear it down again
well something happened
not sure what
magic
guess it could have been one of the screws i attacked that "slightly moved"... did tension the rails with a torque wrench to around 1nm. Guess they are a bit overtorqued now instead
but the fist peak is still a bit low compared to the other one
now the lower belt is the only one with more major issues (around 90-125) which is nice thats easier to diagnose
these are the last i did yesterday
so its better but that z bump is still there
i do wonder if i should just bite the bullet, remove that faulty screw the destructive way (replacing it with torx btw) and rebuild the head
for anyone else that might check in. Printer is now built with hybrid motors installed but not conencted by belts or power, There is also an orbiter 2 smart sensor on the machine.
Im running the TI tube gantry and heavy duty bearings on all idlers
That is the current one?
y
thats 5800 accel without hybrid belts?
no hybrid belts
did loosen it up a quarter turn ish
printer is still on a sturdy floor btw
Not sure what people are getting on a 300 for accel without hybrid but on a 500 3k+ is decent
your belts seem to maybe be off a tooth or two. Lower belt looks like a higher tension but lower amplitude. You could try to pull a tooth in on the lower belt if you want but I think you in the ballpark of the accel you should be getting.
I dont know about the Z bump which is strange but otherwise I think you are good and should just print a bunch of things 🙂
i did count the teeth when i rebuilt it with the new idlers they should be the exact same if no slippage has occured
ill have a look tomorrow
prob but im most likely gonna hunt down this issue
we shall see though
its hard to tell exactly where the belt is gripped in those back clamps. I thought I had mine exact and had to take a tooth in. Also make sure you have the exact same grabbed up front.
yeah front is much easier 😄
ill give it a try
I dont know how much more you want to chase it vs just printing. Check to see what others are getting on a 300mm machine accel wise but by the time you go hybrid you should be nearly 2x that which will be pretty damn fast 🙂
ive tried but ive not really found many examples there are so many people running about with 4 and 500 machines 😄
also really none but my small push of ocd prob wont allow it
🙂
I dont see any stated numbers for a 300. I would suspect it would be above the range of a VC3.1 400 though since they are roughly the same size gantry size.
dissasembled my head seems like i had some more fun issues like spinning heat inserts
not good. I broke one of them and I epoxied it in until I could print and replace it.
Yep 2 are now epoxied
Gonna need to wait for new m2.5 screws for the hotend as well.
Also found a few other ones that weren't flush so i pushed em down a bit more. Gonna be interesting to see if it will do any difference
z thing still there
loosened the lower belt a tooth which fixed the alignment issue.
guess ill have to go poke about with the z active to see whats going on. I find it super hard though since as soon as i touch something on the gantry i eliminate some of the resonance D:
fiddled with it a bit more and here is where ill end for tonight
so the only thing that seems to help when i check the y is touching the umbilical
except for holding the entire toolhead
detatching the ptfe tube from the umbilical lead to more vibrations
from 1.5 3e+7 to 3
Do you have filament loaded into the hot end? Some people have said the gears in the extenders can rattle without filament in them.
It seems to be the same either way ive tried both.
I don’t know what 300 numbers are good but your y is pretty much what my 500 y with hybrid is. I suspect you will be 10k+ by the time you do hybrid
Do you think me touching the umbilical would hinder other vibrations in the machine?
Probably 😄
I could but there is always going to be noise from it. I think you are close enough. I wouldn’t be surprised if you started printing and came back to it after a number of hours and redid the tests they would be better. Things will wear in and get smoother.
They will prob. Its a bit annoying that its hard to try shortening the umbilical. Altough i could prob try to remove just the piano wire
Some noise i expect but it feels like its quite a bit
Also feels like the belts are still a tooth out
They could be. You could try to loosen the back clamp till you can pull one tooth through. You feel it pop through if you loosen it just enough. Not sure how much better numbers you can get
Neither do i, thats partly whats fun about it.