Camera Path - offset from original location
Hello!
I'm trying to create 360 videos from my drawings and am hitting some snags. I've searched the posts here but I haven't figured out how to fix, maybe I'm missing it. Can you please help me troubleshoot?
Issue 1: I set up a camera path and recorded, but no .bat file was created. I first encountered this problem July 2022 (I posted intending to ask about it but apparently I never saw that AncientWorlds responded, my bad). I couldn't consistently get it to work in the last year, sometimes it did, sometimes not. I think that is explained by the solve for the post from 2023/04/06 with similar issue workaround: I saved my sketch as new, plus a whole system restart, and got my .bat. However...
Issue 2: Now my camera path is now offset from where I originally built it. When I open the sketch, I have my drawing, and way off to the side is my camera path. I did a full system restart and got it back in place once, but then when I saved the sketch as new, when I opened it the camera path was offset again in both the original and the saved as new drawing. What can I try to get that path back in place?
Please let me know what other details I can provide to help figure it out?
90 Replies
Could you DM me the .tilt file?
Sent it! Thanks for the quick reply 🙂
@insidetherobot I've opened your sketch and the camera path seems to be in the right place
Well, that’s good?! Any ideas for me on why it won’t load correctly on my system? Something I can reset?
no idea at all. i can't work out why you were having issues with .bat file creation either
that's fixed now - but it's strange
so - when you load your sketch and preview the camera path - it's offset?
Yes, I open it up and it’s off to the side a ways in the open space. My original set up has it passing mostly through the very center of the drawing.
.bat seems to be working fine now - based on old threads it could have been that I needed to wait extra for it to render, but I have a new graphics card now so no wait.
ok. anything unusual in your OpenBrush.cfg?
Don’t think so, I can paste it here shortly when I get back to my desk
aight, here is my config:
{
"User": {
"Author": "InsideTheRobot"
},
"Video": {
"SavecameraPath": true
},
"Flags": {
"PostEffectsOnCapture": false,
"ShowWatermark": false
},
"Export": {
},
}
Here's where the camera path is when I open the same file I sent you. My original path location is supposed to go through the drawing to the left, through the heart into the spheres.
We have another computer here we can try it on, will do that if you have no other suggestions and it still loads correct for you?
I've recently had some issues with path files being in unexpected places at times. Might be a result of moving the sketch inadvertently or closing before the save/load is completely resolved?
I guess your feature request to allow easy repositioning of the whole path would help with this?
Also - years of distrust of save files gave me habits that don't help much here.
Multiple saves are tricky because naming/managing files isn't easy.
And even if you did have an old save to refer back to - we don't have a way to merge some parts of a older file into the latest one.
I'd love to fix some of this.
File management is tricky, and it's space intensive. At the same time, I find it to be a good safeguard, so I do it routinely.
Also tends to be useful to be able to revert to earlier versions of a sketch, at least from an artistic standpoint. You can make a lot of changes really quickly, that may or may not work out.
I suppose if we can manipulate paths, we could save them the same way that polyhydra was able to save shapes, or that we might want to save some api script things. For the most part I don't see a lot of use for that, although recently I've taken more to building sketches around paths than drawing paths in after the scene is built. Might be worth taking a look at as advances are made in animation paths.
I'd still love to be able to move paths without breaking them. Probably would need a dedicated handle to avoid accidental movement. An operation like selecting a group and the handle might be useful to move them together. Might need an on/off switch on the panel to avoid accidentally triggering when selecting a group, which would be a big problem if too easy to do A lot of tools operate around the origin point or mirrors, and there's a need to be able to move things around a sketch and work in different areas of it. I'd also really like a tool that could pop out a perfectly circular path, spiraled path, etc. Might be a good thing to look at in conjunction with the api?
Also tends to be useful to be able to revert to earlier versions of a sketch, at least from an artistic standpoint. You can make a lot of changes really quickly, that may or may not work out.
I suppose if we can manipulate paths, we could save them the same way that polyhydra was able to save shapes, or that we might want to save some api script things. For the most part I don't see a lot of use for that, although recently I've taken more to building sketches around paths than drawing paths in after the scene is built. Might be worth taking a look at as advances are made in animation paths.
I'd still love to be able to move paths without breaking them. Probably would need a dedicated handle to avoid accidental movement. An operation like selecting a group and the handle might be useful to move them together. Might need an on/off switch on the panel to avoid accidentally triggering when selecting a group, which would be a big problem if too easy to do A lot of tools operate around the origin point or mirrors, and there's a need to be able to move things around a sketch and work in different areas of it. I'd also really like a tool that could pop out a perfectly circular path, spiraled path, etc. Might be a good thing to look at in conjunction with the api?
it's space intensive.I don't get this. Storage is dirt cheap and .tilt files aren't that big. What's a fairly big sketch? 50-100mb? 10,000 of those would fit in 1tb and 2-3tb drives aren't that expensive. Even if your average sketches are 1gb or more - that's still pretty roomy.
I'd still love to be able to move paths without breaking them.I've started work on a way to move layers so that would probably translate nicely to paths. If we do have a bug where paths move by themselves then we need to fix it. I'd need some ideas on how to reproduce the problem. But - from what I know of the codebase - I can't see how this would happen. Layers can't be moved easily without "select all". And camera paths aren't easily moved intentionally or unintentionally. It might be some really obscure set of conditions - I just don't know where to start looking.
I'd also really like a tool that could pop out a perfectly circular path, spiraled path, etc.Yeah. I can probably make this possible via a script given a few hours or a day. I want this myself for other things. Paths are going to become more important as I find more uses for them.
Space intensive on the headset. Actually adds up after a while, although paging through them is probably more of an issue at this point.
I'd like to reproduce the problem as well. My guess is that it allows movement while being written and/or loaded.
Like if I scale the sketch when saving or loading while recording that data, maybe.
Hard to tell for sure. Might be something I encounter more frequently when cycling through versions.
Doesn't happen often enough that it's been a huge priority for me to figure out. I agree paths will be more important, and probably a good idea to make a list of what sort of interchangeability we will want for them, what possible applications are, ahead of time, so they can be planned in. I do think they'll be a big thing going forward since they apply to filming, animation, and presumably api tools
Like if I scale the sketch when saving or loading while recording that data, maybe.
Hard to tell for sure. Might be something I encounter more frequently when cycling through versions.
Doesn't happen often enough that it's been a huge priority for me to figure out. I agree paths will be more important, and probably a good idea to make a list of what sort of interchangeability we will want for them, what possible applications are, ahead of time, so they can be planned in. I do think they'll be a big thing going forward since they apply to filming, animation, and presumably api tools
Like if I scale the sketch when saving or loading while recording that data, maybe.Hmmmm. That's a possibility. I'll look at the code tomorrow. actually - no. scaling the scene shouldn't matter. unless there's a really weird race condition 🤔
Ya, just a guess. I know its possible to do both at the same time. Doesn't happen a lot, might be if you catch it at just the right moment.
Shouldn't matter unless the scene or a group is selected and being scaled/moved while the path isn't
Probably a good place to sanity check though
In the short term I can probably write a script to "nudge" the camera path without worrying too much about good UX.
Ya, that would be something perhaps. Another possibility might be a user closing a sketch before the save operation is completed?
Like it might close out before being done writing position data?
That looks useful. I'm guessing we'll want direct ui support eventually.
Might be a good idea to explore more and understand better what we want paths to do before locking ui things in though
Might be a good idea to explore more and understand better what we want paths to do before locking ui things in though
Hello hello, wall of info incoming here....So, I got the paths to work today, once and once only. Here's the steps I took, I hope this contains a few clues? Let me know what else I can look at to get things better.
Today, from fresh start:
• Opened the original sketch with path, camera path is offset.
• Opened the original sketch from before with no path, saved as new sketch and then added a simple camera path, saved, recorded. It works.
• Closed the new sketch and reopened, path is offset. Opened each of the several sketch versions I've saved as new over the past couple days and for each sketch the camera path was offset.**Bonus oddity, each identical copy saved as new opens with the path skewed in a slightly different position.
• Quit and reopened OpenBrush, opened original sketch, path is offset.
Full restart computer/lighthouses
• Opened original sketch, camera path is in place!
• Quick make a recording! it works. (Run command file to render 360, first attempt failed -steam encountered a critical error- second attempt after system restart resulted in a succesful 360 video)
• Closed the orginal sketch
• Opened original sketch, camera path is off. Have not been able to reopen it correctly today.
Yesterday with many many restarts, I never got any of the camera paths to appear correctly aligned. Today, on 1 of 2 fresh starts, it worked. Is there anything in here that might point to the issue? I am super stumped.
I did not get a chance to try opening the sketch on another machine yet, will go for that as soon as we can.
System:
Open Brush 2.2.0
HTC Vive Pro 2, Valve Index controllers, original Vive lighthouses
Windows 10, RTX4090, Intel i7-12700K, 64GB RAM
And, just got these uploaded. Here's the flythrough video recording, and the 360 video links:
Feedback on the 360, I feel like there's a lot of pieces of the sketch missing in the visuals? Like maybe my zooms didn't work or something, not sure? What's your opinion on how this turned out vs the flythrough video?
360 Video: https://youtu.be/TCojx7FekV8
Fly Through Video: https://youtu.be/9NMt_68zbJg
Inside The Robot
YouTube
360 Degree Video - VR Art by InsideTheRobot with DJ Spree, Painted ...
VR Art created by InsideTheRobot in Open Brush, as a live on stage performance at SakuraCon dance party on 2023.04.08 in Seattle, WA. Painted in real time using audio reactive brushes in collaboration with DJ Spree.
Experience the mind-melting collaboration between artist InsideTheRobot and the legendary DJ Spree. They joined forces for a live,...
Inside The Robot
YouTube
Fly Through Video - VR Art by InsideTheRobot with DJ Spree, Painted...
VR Art created by InsideTheRobot in Open Brush, as a live on stage performance at SakuraCon dance party on 2023.04.08 in Seattle, WA. Painted in real time using audio reactive brushes in collaboration with DJ Spree.
Experience the mind-melting collaboration between artist InsideTheRobot and the legendary DJ Spree. They joined forces for a live,...
I wondered this too but I have multiple copies of the same sketch, saved as new, then when I open them the path is in a different spot on each?
So for comparison purposes check out 0:23 seconds in both videos.
Thank you so much for your time already looking at this problem. Please let me know if there’s anything else I can send to help!
Hard to tell because the orientation is different.
What would be amazing would be the ability to fly through and use that as a recording path
What would be amazing would be the ability to fly through and use that as a recording path
I mean, shouldn't the orientation be pretty similar because both versions are created off the exact same path?
I looked at both. In one it looks like you're flying? Time stamps didn't match and couldn't find anything nearby.
When filming with paths, camera direction makes a pretty big difference.
At any rate I looked at them for a few minutes and wasn't able to find much in the line of same angle shots that would confirm if a brush stroke wasn't there or if it was obscured by the angle, lighting, intervening objects, etc
When filming with paths, camera direction makes a pretty big difference.
At any rate I looked at them for a few minutes and wasn't able to find much in the line of same angle shots that would confirm if a brush stroke wasn't there or if it was obscured by the angle, lighting, intervening objects, etc
(I know we are sort of deviating from my original question here, so let me know if this convo should go in a different thread or something)
Thanks for taking a look at my videos! No flying, just the camera path, with lots of direction points, speed points, and zoom points. Both videos are one and the same recording on the exact same camera path.
So the time stamps do match but they look really, really different as you saw - screenshot of the 23 second mark. I would have expected both to look similar, right? Seems like my direction points translate to the 360, speed points sort of, and zoom points definitely not. Am I missing a setting to make a different scale for the 360 version?
Well, it's sort of relevant. Adds context at least.
Not at all sure what's going on there, look like two different scenes.
Zoom can change things though, and speeds if different will make the videos match up differently because the timing is different.
Not enough context to really tell what's going on, and not sure why they'd be so wildly different unless you rescaled before filming?
[probably should be able to lock that on the camera path, but that's already a fairly complex interface that's going to need a couple of other things eventually]
Is one video and the other VR?
Ideally we need a very simple scene with a very simple path that consistently shows this issue. Would that be possible?
Ok cool, context I hope will help!
I agree they look like two different scenes, and I wonder if there's some scale/zoom setting I do not know about? I don't believe I rescaled or changed anything at all before filming: once I got my file open with the camera path in the original intended place, I was afraid to make changes and went straight to record that path without touching other settings. So as far as I understand this my 2 videos should look very similar plus in the 360 version I can pan the view around. I'm maybe not sure what you are asking when you say is one video and one VR? The "flythrough" is the mp4 from the camera path, the "360" is rendered from the .bat file generated from the same recording. Please let me know if my terminology isn't matching up, be gentle I am an artist not a coder lol.
Yes absolutely, I totally get that my problem is extra confusing because I cannot replicate it. I will for sure test this out and make a simple scene/simple path test to see if I can recreate the problems.
I should have a chance to do this Sunday 04/16.
Thank you both a million for helping me out so far!
Probably a good question to ask at this point is what you used to view the videos with.
If it has 360 controls, might have to be reoriented.
The only other thing I can think of that would give results if you didn't actually place a camera control at the very start of the path,
pretty sure it just sort of picks a random viewpoint if you don't do that
Viewing on Chrome from Windows 10 desktop. Have also looked at it with Youtube app on iPhone 14. When on desktop I've been sure to not touch 360 controls to see if the camera direction changes in accordance to the path I built. I do have a direction point at the start of the path.
Alright. I'm going to put my step by step process below, but summary is:
I was unable to replicate the camera path getting offset in a simple sketch with a simple path, trying a couple variables (change scale, change zoom). Path always worked.
I did however replicate the offset path problem in a more complex sketch with a simple path, but I don't know how.
Now I'm rendering the last few recordings as 360 to see if there's any clues there, so it'll be a couple hours before I can take a look at them.
I can try anything else you can think of? Am I somehow moving stuff around before a full save? I can go through these steps again with any new ideas!
-----
Step by step:
Fresh system start, no other programs running
In Tiltbrush:
• New sketch, drew simple sketch, drew camera path with 3 path points, 3 direction points, 0 speed points, 0 zoom points
• Save sketch as New
• Recorded path, worked as expected "Untitled_111_00"
• Closed sketch 111, re opened sketch 111, path in place.
• Opened original sketch we are troubleshooting (SakuraCon file), path is offset. Closed it.
Quit Tiltbrush.
• Used .bat file to render 360 video with option 5
• Worked, videos look the same
• Flythrough: https://youtu.be/Mgj0UhRNzbQ
• 360: https://youtu.be/TCeyBFfj-Ps
Opened Tiltbrush
• Reopened Untitled_111, path in place. Closed.
• Opened SakuraCon, path is offset. Closed.
• Opened Untitled_111, path in place.
• Zoomed out to dino scale, saved, recorded path, closed.
• Opened Untitled_111, path in place
• Added speed point to path, saved, recorded path, closed.
Quit Tiltbrush
• Used .bat file to render 360 video with option 5 for "Untitled_111_01" and "Untitled_111_02"
• Worked, videos look as expected, and they also look exactly like the first recording (difference was changing scale before recording, did not seem to affect recordings at all).
• "Untitled_111_01" Flythrough: https://youtu.be/PCSeFilz2Zc , 360: https://youtu.be/Mz4jTQMAX6k
• "Untitled_111_02" Flythrough: https://youtu.be/LkoV7adKhrg, 306: https://youtu.be/yXWxx9jb3qI
Opened Tiltbrush
• Opened SakuraCon original, path is offset. Closed.
• Opened a random more complex sketch, "Spree_VR_2023-04-14"
• Created slightly more complex path, with direction points & 1 speed point, saved
• Recorded path, closed.
• Opened SakuraCon original, path is IN PLACE WHAT THE WHAT
• Didn't touch any other setting, just recorded path "SakuraCon2023-Live_2023-04-08_003_04"
• Set scale to "squirrel scale", recorded path "SakuraCon2023-Live_2023-04-08_003_05"
• Turned on audio reactive brushes, recorded path "SakuraCon2023-Live_2023-04-08_003_06"
• Saved as new, closed. Opened the new, path in place.
• Reopened SakuraCon original, path is offset.
Quit Tiltbrush
• Used .bat file to render 360 video with option 5 for "Spree_VR_2023-04-14"
• Render did not work: seemed like the sketch would not load, no jpgs were saved in the VRVideo folder
• Reopened "Spree_VR_2023-04-14" the slightly more complex one, path is offset.
System restart, tried to open the last sketch again and path was offset, tried to run the render again and failed again.
-------
Only thing I can think of looking is that is maybe you closed the sketch before it was actually finished saving.
The "sketch saved" notification, I'm pretty sure is actually on a timer.
If that's the case, a larger sketch might not be quite done writing.
I haven't isolated it yet either, but that's my working theory.
A sudden movement during load or save might conceivably disrupt the path. Thorough report, hopefully one of the more technical team members can glean some information out of it
The "sketch saved" notification, I'm pretty sure is actually on a timer.
If that's the case, a larger sketch might not be quite done writing.
I haven't isolated it yet either, but that's my working theory.
A sudden movement during load or save might conceivably disrupt the path. Thorough report, hopefully one of the more technical team members can glean some information out of it
Yeah, I will see if I can test that possibility and get any repeatable results for closing the sketch too early or making sudden movements and frightening the wild camera paths.
I hope there are some clues somewhere in my list of steps, happy to keep on documenting if it can get us anywhere!
Can you paint a clear marker in the sketch showing me where the camera path is meant to start? I want to try fixing the offset and then sending it back to you to see if the fix stays the same.
Is it like "it got offset once and now it's stuck"? Or "the offsetting has happened more than once"?
if it was a one-off then i'm tempted to fix it for you and wait to see if it happens again.
if it's repeatable - then that's a good thing as I can see if it happens to me
Yes, I can do that, you want me to do it on the same sketch I sent you before, yes?
Yeah.
Ok, will do
Problem at the moment is I can't easily tell if the camera path has moved - because i don't know where it's meant to be
Haha no doubt
just an obvious blob on the first position knot would be fine. maybe two blobs just to be sure
Also, yes and yes....It got offset once and now it's stuck, but I've reopened/restarted probably 30 times since then and in 2 instances it opened in the right place.
(1 blob wouldn't help if it is rotated around the first know but 1 blobs should catch that)
(technically you need 3 blobs to be 100% sure but you get my point 🙂 )
Yep I understand what you mean 🙂 So far it's in a totally different place, not just rotated.
Here's an idea. If you could draw a stroke that follows the whole path and then select the brush stroke and move it back to where the path is meant to be.
Wait, I was able to save a new copy with the path in the expected place, I can send that
ah ok
hold on - doesn't that mean you've fixed it?
So yes, for this particular project it should be fixed. Then last night testing other sketches, I had the same offset thing happen. So continuing to try to figure out what I'm doing that is causing it.
And for the original project, I had a secondary question on the 360 video render turning out at a strange scale or something else off, there's a screenshot of that further back in this convo. Let me know if I should do a different thread for that one.
ah ok. let me rethink my suggestion for next steps forward
Let me know if I should do a different thread for that one.definitely. it's already got lost in the mists of time! Always "1 topic per post"
For sure. I super appreciate you all and your responsiveness and expertise!
ok. so - next steps - I need to find the simplest sequence of actions that consistently causes the offset. As soon as you can reproduce the problem every time, then I can try the same thing.
If you can't do it consistently then get as close as you can: "if you do this for 5 minutes it will probably happen to you"
Ok great. I will do my best to repeat the problem and report back!
Sent a DM with sketches to you.
On both sketches I marked a blob at the first camera path point, a tracing of the camera viewfinder window (at dino scale), and a tracing of the first little bit of the path curve. I isolated this marker in Layer 2 for each sketch.
The one titled "PathOffset" is a copy of original file I sent, just added the marker lines.
The one called "PathCorrect" is the save as new file I made the most recent time the original file opened with the path in place.
Let me know if that original file did or did not open correctly after all. In the meantime I'm trying to break another path 🙂
They look like completely different camera paths
Can you check the button on the upper left of the camera paths tool and confirm how many paths are attached to that sketch?
I have the sketch file - there's only one camera path in each as far as I saw.
Shoot, I did go in and tweak the path when it opened in place and so it would not be exact. Let me see if I still have the exact one, sorry.
Have you got the world scale unlocked in your config file?
{
"User": {
"Author": "InsideTheRobot"
},
"Video": {
"SavecameraPath": true
},
"Flags": {
"PostEffectsOnCapture": false,
"ShowWatermark": false
},
"Export": {
},
}
no?
nah
Ok, I must have done a save over at some point. I do not still have the carbon copy path in place any more, closest is that tweaked path to show the intended placement. Sorry, not helpful 😦
i've found one weird thing
your main layer is scaled. that shouldn't be possible.
So we need to figure what I did to make the impossible?
Hmm, something I need to check for other reasons, might explain some things
What are the expected numbers?
Extra note on this particular sketch (but not true for other sketches I have had the path offset from): drawing was made on a Quest2 linked with virtual desktop, then I transferred over to my PCVR (VivePro 2)
Maybe accidentally unlocked scene scaling?
It can be done with some of the controller buttons, at least in some versions
It can be done with some of the controller buttons, at least in some versions
I have Valve Index controllers
that shouldn't move the main layer
when i replace the binary file that has all your brush strokes with a nearly empty one - then the main canvas loads correctly.
at this point my nearest guess is - something about your strokes is confusing the scene loader. Maybe the extreme scale is causing floating point errors or something? @captainxap one for you maybe! how could the main canvas end up scaled in normal operation?
Sounds like it might be related to
https://discord.com/channels/783806589991780412/1097564347598897173
made on a Quest2ok
linked with virtual desktop,Quest on virtual desktop is still PC VR
then I transferred over to my PCVR (VivePro 2)just to be 100% clear - you never worked on this sketch on the quest natively? only via PC VR? I don't think this is the issue but I want to be clear on what you said
Correct, only pcvr
I didn't know either but trying to get you anything I can think of that would be different from regular workflow
It might be worth looking at the player log
If it's extreme scale, would that be the strokes that are super far away from the home point? I definitely have other sketches where I do this, I'll see if I can replicate the path offset in these sketches?
Yeah. Good plan
@insidetherobot :
C:\Users[username]\AppData\LocalLow\Icosa Foundation\Open Brush
the log files:
Because like, the pink star strokes in this sketch you have, are like outside the boundary of the sketch area
so - i have a hunch what happened. but i don't know how it happened.
ah. the sketch metadata doesn't record any layer transforms on the main branch. so i can see during scene loading when it gets transformed
Okay, so I have a sketch I was working on last night trying to break the path. Spent about 2.5 hours doing different things, camera path in place 100% of the time. Opened it just now and camera path is offset.
Will it help you to see that file at all?
Same deal where I put stars outside the accessible play area
Yes Please.
Also - can you try making a simple scene with just:
1. stars outside the accessible play area
2. A path with some marker so you can tell if it's shifted.
that might be the minimum steps to reproduce this
but - when did you draw the furthest stars? end of last night or today?
Another question (they are adding up!) - are you in experimental mode?
Ok, in DMs.
For the sketch just sent: I didn't draw anything between last night or today, the sketch is old and I was only changing camera paths. Only thing between last night and today is a system restart.
And for the sketch just sent: There is the word "Love" near the palm trees, original path went through the center of the "o"
Making the requested scene right now
How do I check if I'm in experimental mode?
Do you have more brushes than normal? look for 3D printing brush right near the end of the list
@insidetherobot
it's stopped doing it!
the main layer is now at 0,0,0 as expected 😕
No, my last brush is Diamond
i'm baffled now. It's a heisenbug.
Oh no lol
Ok, I set up camera paths in 2 more sketches: one, the scene as requested with stars outside the play area and simple path, two, an older more complex sketch with stars outside area. They're working right now...
i need to do something else for a bit. and maybe clear my head,
Ok cool! Thank you so so much for helping me out.
Weird. Interaction with steam layer perhaps? Maybe timing on the load and whether steam is already active, something along those lines?
I am still going through and trying to replicate the issue. I do see that I have one more copy of the original sketch saved where I had opened it and the camera path was offset in yet a different location, let me know if you'd like to see that.
Otherwise, I'm so super grateful to have you troubleshooting on this! Thank you thank you. Absolutely no rush here, but please let me know if there's anything else I can do on my end for y'all in the meantime.