Does jumping from a menu to a landing page hurt Site-Indexing?
Not sure where to ask this...
On mobile, does it hurt SEO if a user jumps to a sub-section from a menu?
For example, let's say that I have this structure... (see screenshot)
Security
- By Section - By Topic - By Content-Format From a search engine (and SEO) standpoint, is it better to... 1.) Eliminate the sub-section above, and just take people to a "Security" landing page, and then from there offer ways to navigate to the sub-sections? 2.) Keep the structure above, and if a user chose "- By Section" then take them to a "Security by Section" landing page? My concern is that my "site map" and "site structure" might somehow get lost by allowing people to just directly to a nested layer of my website, VERSUS, having then navigate like the olden days when you start on the Home Page, then you click on a link and drill down ONE LEVEL, and then on that landing page, you click on another link and drill down to a SECOND LEVEL, and so on and so forth. Hope that makes sense?!
- By Section - By Topic - By Content-Format From a search engine (and SEO) standpoint, is it better to... 1.) Eliminate the sub-section above, and just take people to a "Security" landing page, and then from there offer ways to navigate to the sub-sections? 2.) Keep the structure above, and if a user chose "- By Section" then take them to a "Security by Section" landing page? My concern is that my "site map" and "site structure" might somehow get lost by allowing people to just directly to a nested layer of my website, VERSUS, having then navigate like the olden days when you start on the Home Page, then you click on a link and drill down ONE LEVEL, and then on that landing page, you click on another link and drill down to a SECOND LEVEL, and so on and so forth. Hope that makes sense?!
82 Replies
user behavior doesn't influence SEO
What do you mean?
Nothing a user does on your site has any influence on SEO
like, if Jimmy goes to your site and clicks on random shit, that's not going to affect your page ranking
it's all about the structure of the site, and not at all about how users actually use it
My concern is that if I used an approach like above, that maybe the web-crawlers wouldn't see the site structure and make the connection of:
Home > Security > Security by Section > Property > Home Security
(My apologies if my thread title maybe isn't the best?!)
That's not exactly true is it? Like in this context maybe, but what pages users go to and how long they stay on the page definitely does impact SEO
does it really? That feels like a massive invasion of privacy to me
I think my thread title is misleading - I am worried that not using menus properly will screw up web-crawlers, and search engines won't properly understand my site structure, and that WILL definitely impact SEO....
Yea, I'm not an SEO expert but I'm like 90% sure they track how long you someone stays on a page and what internal links they go to
I (naively, perhaps) thought SEO was based purely on web crawlers, not on internal site analytics
I'd have to look into it again don't quote me, maybe I'm completely wrong
But I was pretty sure that was the case haha
Then throw out your Android and stop using Google (and the Internet)!!
wow, that's honestly kinda dark... makes me glad I block all that analytics stuff from the get go! Well, ignore me then
There's also a lot of things Google says that they don't do that they actually do when it comes to SEO
yeah, page ranking is by design a very secretive process
SEO is absolutely based on WHAT peopel click on, WHERE it takes them, HOW LONG they stay on a page, and WHERE they go next
This is based on the AI interview so grain of salt:
anyone who claims to have the one true secret to google's algorithm is by definition lying
My concern is just to make sure that my site structure is well understood by web-crawlers and ultimately search engines.
This thread is NOT about "Page ranking" per se....
Sorry yea definitely cause us to go on a tangent 😂
I think the other thread where Epic was saying it really just depends on your target audience is right. There's a lot to be said about thinking about the initial site layout, but really you need to get users to your site first and then monitor how they're using it (heatmaps, analytics, etc)
🤦 trusting google's AI to tell you the truth about SEO... Anyway, sorry for the incorrect assumption, I'm leaving the thread as I have nothing further to add
Try to get your site set up in a way that helps SEO (good, semantic html tags, meta tags, schema if you're using that) then when you get users on the site you can start optimizing
There's a lot to be said about premature optimization
Not wrong! 😂 too lazy to read the article(s) but the few I looked at generally said the same thing
google tracks how long you are in a page and which pages you visit
and if you go back after visiting a page or not (bounce rate)
it shouldnt track mouse movements for anything besides the captcha
or, at least, i have no idea where they display that data
thats something that hotjar does, for example
Here is where I am at...
1.) When a user clicks on the hamburger menu on the Home Page, present a short list of major sections on my site (e.g. Privacy, Security, etc.). Then when a user chooses "Security", take them to a Security home page, and from there they can keep drilling down into sub-sections (e.g. Home Security, Car Security, etc.)
2.) When a user clicks on the hamburger menu on the Home Page, allow them to drill down and hop DIRECTLY to a subsection landing page. But will allowing this, mess up the web-crawlers, because they skipped a step due to the more efficient hamburger menu?
Follow me?
Follow me?
You can submit a sitemap to Google Search Console that tells Google all of your internal links
You can also do this automatically (I forget how off the top of my head, I think it's a meta tag)
I'm just nervous because people in the past implied that hamburger menus break web-crawling and site-indexing and ultimately SEO
If you have the links in your footer to your Security page, and that page has all your internal links, web crawlers are smart enough to navigate and find them
There's also a lot of things people say about SEO that just aren't true. A little while ago people said that Single Page Applications (like React's implementation) are bad for SEO because crawlers can't see what's on the page since it needs JavaScript to load. While SSR can be better, crawlers can process and wait for JS to load nowadays so it's not as bad as people think it is
(or at least what I read)
SEO is tricky cause it's always changing and there's a thousand people saying contrary things (like me!) Form your own opinions but also test them out, don't get stuck in trying to implement the perfect solution
Have you ever noticed how all these really crappy sites are on top of the search engine results?
Optimizing for SEO can only take you so far. While it's super important, what's more important IMO is building a brand people recognize, trust, and go to constantly
If you build a good product (regardless of SEO, I'm talking good usability, and people like your product) they'll write about it, you'll get outlinks, and people will keep clicking / going to your site which will boost its rankings more than trying to find the perfect implementation of a mobile menu will
Would rather go from the Home page to a Security home page, and then drill down like this...
Or would you prefer going to Home > Security > Security by Section immediately from the hamburger menu?
Like Epic said, I can really only give you my opinion. But I'd say whatever requires less amount of clicks to get to the same page / content
The more actions / clicks it takes to get to the content you want your users to see the less likely they'll actually see it
and seniority. which is why all the w3schools junk still shows above mdn
Which approach do you prefer, epwc? Would you prefer just going to a Security home page and then drilling down from there, or would you prefer to save a click/hop by going to "Security by Section"?
i prefer the shortest and fastest way
dont care how, honestly, as long as i can get there easily
im very opinionated, but my opinions are just that: opinions. their correctness is worthless because they are opinions
But to your earlier advice, if people respect my brand and content, will they be willing to work a little harder to drill-down and get to what they want?
My problem is that my website will have hundreds of sections, so the simple fact of the matter is that people are going to have to do more leg work to get to what they want. (If you go to "Mall of America" and bitch because you haev to walk too far between stores then I'm not sure what to do?!). LOL
Which is why people say malls are dying because you can go click on Amazon and buy something in 3 clicks 😉
People want convenience now. They don't want to go through 5 links to find what they're looking for. Sure, some people might be willing to, but you'd probably have to have a really niche target audience / product
People want robots to wipe their asses too...
Just how it is. Can't blame people. I do the same thing and i bet you do too, consciously or not
Sadly you are right that Americans are INFINITELY lazy. But to my point... If you want the benefits of walking around Mall of America, or Disneyland, or Manhattan, then it requires some effort...
bidet supremacy wins!
Nope. Not me. Not lazy. I am analog. And I have no problem living life - which requires all kinds of effort
Well it's not just Americans it's pretty much everywhere but that's besides the point lol, but we are talking about what users want and I'm giving you my opinion
How did we go from a mobile menu to talking about work ethic 😭
People want robots to wipe their asses... 😉
Well there you go, maybe your target audience wants that maybe they don't, your job to cater to it if you want people to go to your site lol
too lazy to explain, ask chatgpt
Apparently I am one of the last humans on Earth that is willing to put effort into using a website...
How did we get here? Apparently how I use things, and my expectations, are different than the younger crowd.
So I have to take that into consideration when I design things
and as i said before: look at the competition and draw inspiration from it too
@vince , so what about you? Would you prefer to go from the Home page and hamburger menu directly to a Security landing page, and then from there you can drill down more, or do you prefer my first screenshot where I allow you to drill a little deeper in the hamburger menu?
I am. You'll notice that I often paste screenshots of the NYT and WSJ here. Then again, I am trying to build something better!
im not vince but i will give you my opinion: the most popular ones right in the menu
and a sub-page to see all the options
So you prefer this...
Thats Hamburger (click-1), Security (click-2), then taken to a landing page called "Security by Section" - and if it isn't clear - then you'd have to navigate more and decide which "Security section" you want...
i prefer this:
privacy
- current topic 1
- current topic 2
- current topic 3
- current topic 4
- view all
but that is me
But I want to show you categories first (i.e. By Subject, By Topic, By Format)
i dont care if it is an image, about cookies, about gdpr, about laws, a pdf ...
i just want the current thing
Hey I wouldn't get too high on your horse lol it's a weird thing to grandstand about, it's what social media / tech companies have done to the human race. They prey off human biology and destroyed a lot of what normal life was
You mean rotted people's brains and turned them into zombies?
I wouldn't go that far lol but yea definitely destroyed us in some type of way
it did destroy us, and made us dependent
Well, my target audience is NOT zombies - or to be frank, lazy people. (Not being a snob here, just being honest)
"Them", not "us", defintely not "me"
How you think your users should interact will be different from how they actually interact
Which goes back to the point that you just need to test, our opinions don't mean much
True. And I'm here trying to get advice to bridge that gap
But we aren't your target audience
No, your opinions do matter to me because it forces me to see things from outside my head
That's true
Of course there is always the good ole, "FUCK IT" and build what I want to build and the world be damned!! LOL
I think that's a good approach honestly
Like build to what you think will help with SEO / target audience and then TEST
Don't spend so much time trying to do something perfect because it won't be (like epic said)
DO THAT
seriously
just do that
and later on, you improve upon it
I was in the same position as you doing my portfolio website, like omg i need the perfect design ever and like literally no one cares
it never helped me get a client (maybe a job in dev, but like that's a completely different thing than what I was trying to do at the time, freelance)
you see freelance web dev sites / agencies with the worst, outdated looking sites and it doesnt matter because they get clients
and why do they get the clients? because the site exists
maybe i'm projecting here because it's definitely the case with me but like maybe you're being too prideful about it ("I need to have a good site, something I'm proud of and my users will love or it's not worth it"), that's an ego thing. ego won't bring users to your site
(Sorry, did a quick survey with a Millenial mom here at the library about what we are debating)
Yeah, I'm trying to balance all of this out... Truth be told, I AM confident in myself and my idea, BUT I am trying to be a bigger person and get other perspectives
I'll make you proud of me some day! LOL. I am getting close to wrapping up things, but there are still kinks I have to work out. Fortunately for me - I am naturally gifted at organizing things - so I'm sure I can come up with an idea thatw orks for most
And what did they do to get clients?
they probably didnt plan jack shit and pushed out their crummy website as fast as possible, then spent the rest of the time in marketing
or just took an existing theme and went with it
Valid observation, but no. This is not about ego. If I never had any visitors to my website and never made a dime, I'd still do this because I am passionate about it.
My desire to "nail it" is more that I know I have a good thing, and I just want to present it in a way that "kids these days" will get it and benefit from it.
The mdoern world has such a short attention span, that you get like 10-20 seconds to hook people, and then you lose them forever?! 😭
Not about ego? lol
the most popular video format now-a-days is less than 20 secobds long
Right. Not about ego. Totally about pride in craftsmenship.
So I didn't get a definitive answer about the site-indexing/SEO thing, but I am taking away that "Less clicks = better". Also, "JUST DO IT!"
exactly
There is no definitive answer
for the site indexing, it doesnt matter
you just make a sitemap and keep it updated
for the user side of things, definitively that the less friction between the users and their content, the better
if the user side will help with seo? probably, probably not, maybe, maybe not ... nobody knows and those who know are lying to your face and mine
If you click on a hamburger menu choice and are taken to a new page (e.g. Security) and on that page you see other things that interest you, will you keep clicking (and going down the rabbit hole)?
In other words, if you land on a page with a bunch of options, are you curious enough to explore a little more from there?
yeah, if they interest me
So relevant links/options and good content will potentially lead you to explore more and drill-down a little more?
yes, if i see the content
And if I offered a way for you to build a "My Sections" - as well as bookmark things - then that would be helpful?
i wouldnt use it, but plenty of people would