what’s the best way to handle 200 players on a server
Just curious what’s the best software type, optimizations ect
Bukkit Server, 1.21. Am willing to spend money on software
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Requested by itzjimjam#0
Context please.
What will you be running (PvP server, fabric server)
are you willing to pay for server software etc
@James
Smp, bukkit
Yep, as long as it’s a reasonable amount
Sorry, I quickly typed it in a rush
Anything else I need to know?
You want GOOD hardware.
Preferably a 7950X or better.
You might be looking at upwards of 16-20GB of ram too. Depends but I’ve seen servers use that much @professor how much does your use?
For server software, if you’re willing to pay I would check out UniverseSpigot. It’s $70 one time.
Check out Eternity’s optimisation guide too.
Paper Chan hideout
Paper chan's Little Guide to Minecraft Server Optimization!
The most complete Minecraft server optimization guide with everything you need to know about running a Paper Minecraft server plus Paper Chan!
so for our most demanding gamemodes (survival and lifesteal), we have a dedicated machine for them to ensure that they have the most CPU overhead as possible and that the mspt isnt affected by external factors like usage, temperature, etc.
we have 128gb ddr5 memory which you dont really need that much in some cases but the more the merrier
so far we have seen at most ~240 on our survival server running universespigot+ and got a straight 20tps with 27mspt
but we havent gone full throttle with optimizations yet so we expect that it can handle even more once we do so
iirc fruitSMP or something like that holds the record with 700 players on a single universespigot+ instance
but for the most part you will not need universespigot+ unless you're really trying to milk as much performance as possible
in general a lot of it is playing cat-and-mouse with your servers config and plugins, pull a lot of spark reports and study them closely. we were able to drastically improve performance by setting simulation distance to 2 because we have a lot of players that run mob farms or villager halls, so all-in-all it helps reduce the ticking for all of those PLUS chunk ticking
how much ram does your server use on average?
lmao
please pick your plugins wisely
that too
theres alot of garbage poorly-coded plugins that will cause memory leaks
also test the fuck out of your server
assume things WILL go wrong
according to spark 20gb out of 24
interesting
cheers
but this value drops alot and fluctuates
mmmm wonderful
memory usage has always been an issue but its always a plugins problem
at what playercount is that
our creative server has little to no memory leaks
154
damn
Atp just recode all your plugins ;)
rn the biggest issue is probably jobs reborn and spawnermeta
ever done a heapdump and analysed it?
jobs reborn is literally hilter
damn
it makes db calls on the main thread sometimes
No joke
and itll drop tps to like 12 for a second
no but i dont know how to read heap dumps
you can use eclipse memory analyser
It auto identifies possible leaks
however heapdump does freeze your server
and your heapdump would be literally a 20-something gb file
yeah
heapsummary would be more appropriate but eh
but yes please please please pick your plugins wisely
^^
and testing isnt enough
you need to have a beta phase where itll reset eventually
unless you have 200 testers KEKK
because players are unforunately the best testing metric
oh and if you dont wanna spend money on universespigot, you can optionally try out folia if plugin compatability isnt an issue or ShreddedPaper if you wanna be on the bleeding edge
GitHub
GitHub - MultiPaper/ShreddedPaper: Multi-thread, single-server pape...
Multi-thread, single-server papermc implementation - MultiPaper/ShreddedPaper
shreddedpaper tends to have better plugin compatability overall compared to folia but its also backwards compatiable with folia plugins
I wouldnt trust experimental software
isn't leaf the best option?
funny joke
it's not?
no
what is better?
free & compatible
pufferfish
isn't leaf contains pufferfish patches?
yes
then how?
purpur contains pufferfish patches too
purpur is bloat
yes i know
and I dont trust leaf
but most of forks have pufferfish patches
so it's not about optimization?
what?
i just asked for isn't leaf the best option for optimization, but you don't like just because you dont trust
am i right?
or it is bad for optimization too?
we can make a seperate thread for that discussion, lets not have it here
okay thanks
Would an Intel i5 13500 also be good enough?
mmmmh
I doubt it
the singlethread is not bad but it's not the best
rip 13th gen intel
kek
What do you mean?
intel 13 & 14th gen cpus are gonna kill themselves
why
how
pcgamer
Intel CPU crashes: what you need to know—Intel explains the problem...
The fix is here, but only for fresh Intel CPUs that aren't already affected.
Could it be the cause of the problem im having right now? https://discord.com/channels/348681414260293634/1280604316356444262
Or is it unrelated?
I dont know
um its possible
Or are there other possible causes?
Im desperate for a fix rn, this has been happening a lot lately.
What provider do you use for the dedicated machine?
We decided to build our machines and colocate them instead for budget reasons
However building your own machines comes with the cost of maintaining it
Yeah
Which server are you referring "we" to?
ArchMC
ah alright
Also another question, is tcpshield worth it?
Generally speaking from what ive seen bloom.host and pufferfish.host have decent pricing but I never did much research into hosts. You could also rent a dedicated machine from a company like Hetzner if you’re European or ReliableSite if you’re American but I can’t recommend reliablesite because from what I’ve seen and personally experienced they underclock their machines and so they do not perform at all the way they’re supposed to
Depends how many players you have
Let's assume 200 players during peak
Then yeah it’s worth it
We don’t use them because of the bandwidth pricing so we instead opted for Cloudflare Spectrum with Papyrus.vip, however they do not provide L7 for minecraft so you need you have an antibot setup in the proxy
There’s also cosmicguard which has their own strange pricing system and the company doesn’t seem to be doing so well as of now
Alright
What anti cheat do you recommend?
Polar is good, but 1.21 servers aren't supported (yet, support is planned)
It's not really bad
I mean, the issue is, servers where everyone can see each other (in the same area) just don't scale
The amount of packets you need to send will scale exponentially
Even if they're somewhat spread out, Minecraft still sucks
vouch for uspigot
not as intensive as a vanilla style SMP but I've run 600 players 20 TPS using that software
on a 7900x with ddr5 speed ram
there's some magic in that fork
so anyways machine when am i getting uspigot
Karhu is good for one-time payment, more optimized for 1.8
Vulcan is meh these days, wont recommend it
AstroAC from what ive seen is good for later versions of MC, one time payment
Grim is free and will stop 60% of cheaters however its missing alot, astroAC is forked off of grim iirc
Intave and Polar are both SaaS solutions that both have cloud checks, both have prediction engines, both are very accurate and both do a very good job. Theyre almost on the same level but Polar is slightly better. They are mostly optimized for 1.8 but also work well in later versions
It really depends what kind of gamemodes you run, you can get away with running grim if your server is premium and you have very active staff
Astro is a shitshow
Do NOT buy from them
Astro also isn't one time anymore. They're also going SaaS
What’s up with them
So all users will have to rebuy correct?
Engine stolen from Grim, documentation, config, and ToS is copy + pasted from Polar, checks aren't revolutionary or ground-breaking (it's the same shit you get in Vulcan)
No, but they will be having an additional monthly subscription for "more checks"
They've gone too far with stealing from Polar XD
Yeah I saw your messages in there lol
Honestly I was incredibly disappointed when I initially tested it
They're literally violating the rights of at least 3 people
Honestly, that's insane
I was in the chat talking about how there weren’t any checks for crystal cheats and this dude was like
Dming me saying
Delete your messages cause you’re not allowed to test the AC
Not even for staging
XD
I thought in their license that testing meant those AC test servers
What do you think is the best for 1.9+ smp servers?
When I called them out (even in a private Discord) I was immediately silenced harshly
They don't want people to know about their bullshit x)
https://polar.top is good
Polar Anticheat
Home | Polar Anticheat
Polar Anticheat is a SaaS cheat prevention software aimed at limiting cheaters from gaining unfair advantage on your Minecraft server.
I had high hopes seeing Pedro in there
But they probably have custom checks exclusive to the main license
There’s no way a crystalpvp SMP is running default astro
You can also give Vulcan a shot, I’m not that informed on bypasses though
It’s still somewhat decent
Spartan also has bossed up recently and vagdedes is making good progress with the ML work
There’s not many bypasses for it to my knowledge
..also stay away from Spartan
Nah they fixed all their performance issues
We’re probably gonna run their bedrock AC soon cause they recently made it free
Bedrock != Java
Spartan doesn’t deserve the hate it gets imo
Also
Is it worth running geyser standalone?
Geyser is not worth as a whole
Really?
Only if you have a sizable bedrock player base
no, bedrock is worth running
That's what I was thinking
There's so many more bedrock players
There are more issues than there are benefits
much bigger possible playerbase
We don’t use it but have thought about it for accessibility
If you do lots of advertising, a lot of them will be bedrock
Between 60-80% depending on where you advertise
This too, we’ll essentially be forced to redesign all of our GUIs
To just ignore that is dumb
no
Cracked marketshare is probably bigger than bedrock tbh
If you're still curious why hardcore isn't on bedrock yet:
💬 94 🔁 147 ❤️ 3.6K 👁️ 288.0K
Andrew (Toycat) (@ibxtoycat)
If you're still curious why hardcore isn't on bedrock yet:
Bugrock
Jenkins
Anyways
That is a mute point
That has nothing to do with geyser
Bedrock is genuinely not worth it on a Java server
There are so many problems with Geyser as a whole
If you want to target the Bedrock audience, why not just make your server bedrock to begin with?
Would someone be able to answer my question
Yes
Very much so
Highly recommend
Like what?
Do you think people will bother playing on a Java server and have an objectively worse experience?
Yes
And for those that do play, do you think they'd be willing to spend money on the server?
Yes
citation needed
I mean tbh i know cracked players that have spent enough money to buy Java edition 5 times and over
Citation; I've ran large servers before
People will buy anything
Feel free to do whatever you want, but Geyser/Bedrock is NOT stable
Jenkins, geyser is stable...
Yeah but if you're running it on a standalone server wouldn't you just reboot the standalone server?
It's still a platform
Mobile devices tend to update apps to the latest version either way
So Bedrock players just won't be able to join till you update
And, there's no way to downgrade a mobile app on both iOS/Android...
It's genuinely not
The only way to truly know is to see for yourself, though. Do whatever fits you the best
I'm just saying that generally, it's not worth the effort you'd be spending to get stuff working in the first place
@James give it a shot and see how it goes for you
Casper might be right
Just push advertising heavy
Advertising should be covered
If it goes wrong and you get a somewhat big Bedrock audience, people will get very mad btw
just keep that in mind too
Yeah
Everything goes wrong on the daily for us
You just get used to the complaining
that's reassuring lmao
Another I highly doubt you guys can help with, but what's the best way to make some sort of revenue?
Sell things people would be interested in
We increased our revenue by 50% just from selling more items on the store and by adding chat tags
You can literally just break apart perks for ranks and sell them individually, people are gonna buy them
Good idea
The issue is that Spartan still hasn't gotten any better
I do not see any reason as to why anyone would buy Spartan over (insert X competitor here)
Yeah, pretty sure they are
Well, I can't, I'm not willing to spend $20
Yeah, I've been taking a look on the test server
Not... good.
no i can't
typing on a channel != opening a whole game
GitHub
GitHub - Vagdedes/Spartan-AntiCheat: In the mission to create & mai...
In the mission to create & maintain the best Minecraft anti-cheat, powered by Machine Learning (ML) - Vagdedes/Spartan-AntiCheat
I tried Spartan a month or so ago now iirc
It was a pretty buggy mess in certain parts
But I’m still hopeful they’ll improve
definitely not good things
I hope for you to improve, but at the current rate, I don't think that's anytime soon
I don't wish for anyone to fail, but your product isn't the greatest
I'm not. Spartan genuinely is a false flag machine
What do I need to do to make my opinion
not subjective?You can shard your server with something like multipaper, or use performant server software like UniverseSpigot.
don't use MP, discontinued and full of dupes
wait for MP 3.0 to come out
Didn't know that lol
I've used it to run 150+ players
Yeah I could
Don't.
Use ShreddedPaper if you really want to, MP is riddled with bugs
It's currently being rewritten
@James where do you get the 200 peak player figure from?
Event's ran have gotten up to 250 players, the network will be more advertised with a good concept that's wanted for the community.
It may be more or less, but it's what we're expecting and we want the server to be able to handle those player counts
Realistically, universe is the most promising solution I’ve seen. If it’s an smp where players are very spread out then folia could work, but plugin support is still really bad
Any alternates to folia
Not really
As we're planning to rent a 9950x dedicated machine.
How spread out will the players be btw?
ShreddedPaper
Any of you have thoughts about https://canvasmc.io/index.html?
There's absolutely no reason to use this
I mean, its concurrency appears to be on a world level, so it would only matter if players will be spread across multiple dimensions?
Oh wait, and they're violating the GPL license..?
@Snow Kit you surely can't make a public Paper fork licensed under PolyForm Shield, right?
I'd stay very far away from this
Alright
Are there any plugins that do support folia?
Not many, you'll have to write your own
Don’t think so, but nobody at purpur/paper/spigot/bukkit likely will care enough to send them legal action
I mean that's not really a problem, was planning to custom code a majority of the plugins.
Also, folia will only help if the players are spread out
Just be aware majority of plugins don't support Folia
especially the more complicated ones
If 100 people are in the same area with no gaps, then all 100 of the players would still lag
Wouldn’t recommend multipaper at this stage in development, Theres a massive recode underway
Handful of them do, but majority no
Not even essentials supports it
Zessentials does though
and all of the plugins made by the dev of Lands are folia compatible
And all lucko plugins are compatible
Hmmm
I think I’ll stick to not using folia
np bro
Yea I've been told
Do you have a server already
No
If you have a large budget you should probably go with a bloom dedis or something
If you’re running just one server, any ryzen 9 7000 series will work fine. Test performance out on pufferfish with bots, try to strain the server as much as possible (ex /rtp all the bots). Tune performance as much as you possibly can until you’re happy with results, and if pufferfish isn’t enough then go with universespigot
I mean, even a ryzen 7700 would be fine
Just be careful with your plugin choice because there’s a lot of garbage out there that’ll eat memory and mspt
POV: you used a plugin to limit mob spawns
I’m guilty of this
Very very guilty
People will say “oh memory on newer versions will always max out in pterodactyl” that’s just not true
mspt 📈📈📈
This has always been the case for our survival server as we made a lot of poor decisions with plugin choice
Our creative server runs on 1.20 and has never had memory issues whatsoever
Current plan is a 9950X, ashburn, 10gb port, 50tb bandwidth, cosmicguard ddos prot for around $275/mo, is this overkill?
very overkill I think
Dude for one server
That could probably run my network if I tried hard enough
The plan would be to expand, starting as one smp then turning into multiple smps.
Oh I see
That’s fine then
If you’re gonna have multiple SMPs then universespigot would be preferable
Main reason of this is cosmicguard ddos protection included, which should mean I won't need external ddos protection (right?)
What provider?
Use bloom and get a 7950X, they're much more reputable imo and have a lot more resources
I'm pretty sure they give dedi clients the option to upgrade to Ryzen 9000 anyways
Cosmic guard is an interesting choice
Also in the uk you can get servers from pebble
https://pebblehost.com/dedicated/
PebbleHost
Dedicated Server Hosting | PebbleHost
Affordable Dedicated Server Hosting, At PebbleHost we offer high quality dedicated servers with premium support all for a budget price.
Iirc they’re more expensive compared to Spectrum with Papyrus
Wanting Na location.
Reliable site?
would need external antiddos
more setup, more points of failure
I thought it was better now?
god no
its ew
From what friends have told me, I will be staying away from there.
I mean, the reliablesite owner is here if you have concerns
Will do 🫡
Use at your own risk
well all he has said was not good info tbh
I know that Stoneworks uses them
mitigation for bigger attacks is path with not the best ttm iirc, anything under port speed isnt mitigated, and it disables itself way to quickly
so people can start, stop then start again
Full of lead too
Just found this on the floor
Would bloom require external ddos protection?
Blooms upstream is datapacket so no
They’re rated for 120tbps+
with additional filters
But generally you don’t want people knowing your origin
But you can get away with leaving it exposed if you have L4 and setup L7 on your server with something like limbofilter
So that means $100/mo for tcpshield ddos protection
what?
.
Oh wait
bloom offers l7 aswell
I completely read your responce wrong
Aplogies,
datapacket is really good for ddos prot
l4 is good by default, l7 does require some config though but its decent
Alright
bloom has a plugin for it that talks with their ddos protection
Generally anything rated with 10tbps+ you can get away with leaving exposed
And which dedicated machine from bloom would you suggest?
Hell we ran with our backend exposed for like a year and our provider only stops attacks up to 100gbps
These but they seem to be out of stock
You probably won’t need 192gb
get something from Hetzner if in EU
very affordable and good hardware
you will need external ddos prot though
the waitlist is usually under a week
Server needs to be Na
did you send your budget anywhere
or are you right now saying unlimited budget / just want to collect info
Mainly collecting information
bloom dedis are fantastic, plus game panel management is fantastic as iirc they give you their duckpanel, set it up and everything @ProGamingDk confirm
not just a stock ptero panel
ye, its fully managedf