Server HW: Would better single thread processing and faster RAM allow further chunk render distance?
While building a server I'm deciding between a Ryzen 7 5800X or a 7 7700X, and if the price difference would be worth it. Going with the 7700 would also allow for increased RAM speeds but I'm not sure how much that would improve performance. Here's the two processors benchmarks compared: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/5036vs3869/AMD-Ryzen-7-7700X-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-5800X
My main goal is to push our servers render distance as far as possible but someone else I heard from said upgrading to the 7700 wouldn't make a difference.
Thoughts?
28 Replies
Thanks for asking your question!
Once you have finished, please close your thread.
Make sure to provide as much helpful information as possible such as logs/what you tried and what your exact issue is
command to close
/close
!close
!solved
Requested by azander#0
Generally speaking more CPU single core grunt is more good for MC unless you're doing something like Folia that benefits from huge multicore compute.
With Ryzen in general you want X3D chips with very low and tight CAS timing on the memory, due to cache size the RAM speed isn't nearly as important as CAS latency.
Right now if you want raw speed and power from AMD? You have 2 choices:
1. 7800X3D
2. Wait for Threadripper and hope HEDT makes a return
Now you may be asking "But Aeon, why a 7800X3D? That's an 8 core when there's up to a 16 core in that generation"
As seen in many videos the 7800X3D has 3D V-Cache on both CPU dies whereas the higher end models only have it on one die, this can cause performance to be flakey.
What does this mean for Minecraft? Practically speaking you won't likely notice too much difference between something like the 7700X and 5800X since they both have outstanding single core performance, but if you truly want balls to the wall with AMD then I personally would go with the 7800X3D.
Note that Intel typically has much faster individual cores so they still win in sheer bleeding edge speed on MC, not that incremental improvements like that matter more than optimizing your package.
There you go, brief lecture. :KEKW:
I should also note that CL34 7200mt/s has less latency than CL28 5600mt/s memory, because cas latency is tied to clock speed
pcpartpicker shows you first word latency, which would be the important thing to look out for
Thank you both for the info!
I'm not particularly brand loyal, a friend had suggested the Ryzen chips for single thread performance, but Intel has the faster cores/single thread processing you think? I guess I did see that in the benchmarks I was looking at, I was just sticking with AMD based one someones elses suggestion. But you mentioned optimizing my package. I'm not familiar with this but am googling it now. Any suggestions off the top of your head for someone who is still learning a lot of this? @AeonRemnant
Awesome, thank you, I'll pay closer attention to the latency in the RAM we choose. Is RAM ever associated with TPS loss, or more less for things like how fast chunks load? @Snow Kit
So theoretically Intel is faster, but practically speaking you're talking fractions of fractions.
I would go with a chip that has the X3D suffix, particularly the 7800X3D since it's the fastest single core in AMDs lineup and those have been stellar recently.
I'm a systems admin and I'm doing game design professionally, what I can tell you is Intel is not the play, and nor is doing hardware brute force. Optimization of servers and technology like Folia and Sharding are how you get big clusters and fast servers going.
Like if you can't increase the speed past a practical limit what you can do is run multiple servers in parallel to reduce resource overhead.
Intel's TDP is also a joke on chips like this, typically running 2x hotter than their "rated" TDP
That too. They'll run hotter, boost less, be less efficient, etc etc.
These days I wouldn't use Intel for anything.
On platforms like the i9-9900k vs the 5800x, I've seen way worse performance on Intel. Never owned a 13700k personally though
you'll also 100% be able to use your B650 or X670 motherboard for Ryzen's next generation of CPUs, but it's highly unlikely that the 13700k's motherboard would be able to be reused
Honestly the big question is what are you looking to hyper optimize a server for anyway? There might just be a more efficient method.
Okay cool, I'm sticking with AMD then, I've only been researching their chips anyways so that'll keep things simpler for me
I don't want to think I'm hyper-optimizing anything, just trying to get the best bang for my buck with a budget ofr ~$800. I run a mostly vanilla (paper for now) server with ~10 - 15 players active, sometimes more at major peak times. My main goal is to be able to push chunk render distance as far as we can without sacrificing TPS
You can bypass chunk rendering being a server issue by pregenerating the world.
I'm also planning on having 2 or 3 less active servers running in the background on the same machine. A creative and legacy server for the community
Pregen, cache, load. Doesn't need much compute.
For a mostly vanilla server I'd instead invest in high parallel compute so you can take advantage of software like Folia.
That'll mean less disk space taken and more efficiency.
We use pregeneration, but I was thinking more about the
view-distance=X option in server.propertiesThat shouldn't really hurt server perf afaik, but it may stress the clients more.
Where the server is going to get the hurt is in simulation range.
players who are lagging from view distance can't just turn it down on their side?
They can.
Thank you for sharing Folia, I hadn't heard of running in parallel compute. So this essneitally would allow you to use multiple threads/cores or is it wanting multiple CPUs?
Assuming you have a case/psu laying around, for $800 you could build something like this
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Gd6b4s
Part List - AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D - PCPartPicker
Part List - AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Multiple cores and threads.
ah I completely forgot a motherboard
:dead_cat:
For huge compute I'd actually go second hand and buy some Threadripper.
You can do some ridiculous builds via ebay if you subscribe to ruthless economy.
ahh good idea, thank you!
All good, thank you for looking in to a pcpartpicker build anyways 😄
I was looking at benchmarks and saw a Ryzen 7 5800X3D which performs better in single thread processing than the 5800X. If I were to stick with the 5800, I might as well go with the X3D version, huh?
That's about right, yeah.
Being an X3D chip means it has shitloads of cache.
Very good.
Awesome, I feel like that's really helpful to know 😄 Thank you!
Np. Ping me if you need more help. :D
Will do, thanks!
Anything in particular I should keep my eyes open for while choosing a motherboard?
mainly just 4 ram slots to always keep 128gb of ram as an option