Can I mix Labels and Links in an Accordion Menu?
For mobile, can I have both text labels/headings and hyperlinks?
In the mockup, "News & Analysis" would be a text heading, to tie together these hyperlinks..
"by Subject"
"by Topic"
Above that, "How-To" would be a hyperlink.
Would mixing-and-matching labels and links confuse (or annoy) users?
Originally I had...
"News & Analysis by Subject"
"News & Analysis by Topic"
...but that seems verbose and hard to read.
123 Replies
yes, but MAKE IT STUPID FUCKING OBVIOUSLY OBVIOUS that it is NOT a link
How do you really feel?
I was going to make headings black text and make menu choices, blue, and underlined like normal hyperlinks
(Couldn't mock that up in TextEdit.)
as long as they are obviously different, then that's what matters
also, maybe change the text to "news & analysis by ..."
But is it breaking some law of the universe to have heading labels in a menu like that?
nope
That is an option
it also makes it double-obvious that it isn't a menu item
I guess
that's all you have to do
(I should have my mobile site done now by 2030!)
🤣
(My dying wish is to complete this mobile site...). 😊
you will complete it, but you worry too much
Not sure I agree with the first part - the Universe seems to be against me finishing this
But, yes, I am the KING of worrying!!
send one of these 🖕 to the universe
LOL
Yeah, good advice
I am trying my best, but the Universe seems to be winning
you're worrying too much about tiny stuff
Well, it's lind of like Apple packaging - the details really can make a difference in how people perceive things
But my larger worrying point is nailing my IA and UI
but if you run out of money before you deliver anything, you won't have jack shit packaged for anyone
Would be easier if Iw asn't trying to cover all world events in the past epoch, but hey!
True
seriously, you worry too much
But I have also spend a lifetime working for large corporations that don't bother to architect stuff, and then I get paid to come in and clean up people's crap
It's like laying cement... Once you strat pouring things you are stuck with what you planned (or did not plan)
I also worry that no one gives a shit about what I am working on, but oh well
web is not like that: you can do it good enough and deliver better later
Web, yes. Information Architecture and Database Design, not really.
(But yeah, I guess creating a thread on if you should put spaces around your "/" is maybe being a little too nit-picky!!). 😊
yes, it is
and that's the type of stuff that nobody gives a fuck about, and nobody will see if you don't deliver the product
Another reason I am stressing my IA is that I am a one-man show trying to cover all of the news in the world, and I need a design that allows me to "Build once, and forget"" so I can spend 100% of my time reporting and not coding
yeah, but if you release something, you can start reporting while coding
Yeah
Do you think having a static website (i.e. not database-driven) is a bad idea for Phase 1?
hell no, those are wicked fast
go for it
you can even use github pages to host it
you can write in hugo or jenkyl, which generate statis sites
My plan was to finish up my IA and UI, then just do like 1995 web dev and code a bunch of HTML pages that manually link together
In theory, if I can feel liek I have a good IA and UI, then I could code a basic information-only website in a few weeks
I'm sure that will create a cluster-f*** on the tail end, but I can always put my HTML articles into a database later
dont do that
At least then I have a working site
use a static site generator
why don't you take a change and learn astro?
I don't even know what that is...
it's a tool that generates the static site for you
Well, if I have a good UI and template system, then coding artciles will be easy
all the linked html files
It just will be a pain to put it into a databsse later
it will be a nightmare, it's horrible! do not do that
use a static site generator
there's even a cms for astro
so you don't have to write code
Why would it be a nightmare? If I have an "article template", then all I have to do is dump text into that and save it as "stock-market-down-for-another-day.html"
Because you have to maintain the common parts between pages
when you get to 30, you will have yourself
It's not as quick as if I had that same template and a database, but at least I can have a working site sooner
when you get to 100, you will wish to defenestrate yourself
you all went way off topic btw xD
yeah, we did
but yea use a method of SSG (Sveltekit, NuxtJS, Astro, Vituum)
you have lots of options
11ty
just dont do what you're saying
Defenestrate?? LOL. What's that?!
throw someone through a window
You could have had a working site months ago if you just started one 🙂
even if it didn't had slashes separated by spaces
you would have something
you're focusing on the details that have no important and nobody cares about
As mentioend before, I have spent a lifetime seeing what happens when people don't plan first
But ya doing plain HTML in todays ecosystem is just bad... Hell even back in the day I'd use .php just for inporting headers/footers
Okay, I admit my "slash' thread is maybe a tinsy nit-picky
"tinsy" 🤣
Its not nit picky but without a real mockup of a design then its pointless
You are asking people for opinions in plain text not how it would actually look
it's unanswerable, in my opinion
yea it is
Now if you give people an actual design you will use... that can be nit picked
But the question WAS about plain text, so nothing more was needed...
that's the type of thing you spend your time
It's not though...
Its going to have a font/size/spacing/font-weight
all these things would matter A LOT in that choice
No, it was a mid-afternoon I need a break so let me ask something kind of thing
(I promise I didn't spend all day fretting over that)
on one design and on one place, it may look good with separated slashes (e.g.: breadcrumbs)
but somewhere else, it will look horrible
Also wording matters, I came in because I thought you were talking about HTML
Okay
headings are <h1-h6> labels are <label> (so this is what I thought you were asking about at first)
fair enough
that confused me too, a lot
as it would talking to any web dev I would think
like calling menus "hamburgers" when you never use the icon
yeah, but he meant something else, from a design point
No, I meant label like the word in English, not like HTML. (I never thought it would be read that way)
it does
i had to re-read your question 3 times
In fact, I forgot there is a < label > element since I haven't coded in like 8 years
My apologies
it's fine
See, that proves detail does matter - I should have planned more before I posted! 😉
wrong detail 🤣
You guys know about the 5 P's, right?
p i zz a?
Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance...
well, kinda
(Learn it, Know it, Live it)
Hopefully I will have something tangible soon enough
And I hope some day I have some $$$ too
you won't if you don't make it
True
I just don't know what to do....
dude, i know a site that has the branding of pink with yellow and black, and it's making bank!
Every day I feel like I am drowning in work
seriously, you don't need to make it perfect
It's hard to keep up with the news, try to create a website from scratch, and focus on content creation
I seem to bounce back and forth between those 3 things. (And when I am procrastinating I ask questions about slashes!!)
make it into a minimal viable product, instead of "every-single-motherfucking-feature-bloatware"
LOL. True
when you can hire someone else, you will be able to keep that person doing some content or helping on the site
I actually do that more with content research than on building my website
(I was cleaning up my video download folder the other day and realized that I had downloaded 8,000 videos from YouTube on the news in liek the last 2 years - that is SICK!!)
that's too much
I agree, but I have a wicked archive of American history that I feel like I can cash in on eventually
But, yeah, I KNOW I have a problem downloading too much
(I am working on that...)
data hoarder 🤣
THAT'S ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You totally described me
It's easy to fall into that trap with the current administration... (We have more "Breaking News" events in one day that we had in a month when I was growing up!)
Well, on that note, I better get back to staring at my screen and trying to wrap all of this up!
I feel like I have a good hamburger menu - more or less. Now I need to figure out the proper way to link it to my sub-section pages and end-content. (Because I know some of you don't liek having to click a lot!!). 😉
I feel like I have a good hamburger menu - more or less. Now I need to figure out the proper way to link it to my sub-section pages and end-content. (Because I know some of you don't liek having to click a lot!!). 😉
it's not "some of you", it's what your tawrget audience likes or not
and good design tries to minimize friction between the users and the content they want
True
I agree - which is why I am spending so much time with design
But at the end of the day, there is no viable way to make it so people can navigate through a university in a few steps, nor navigating say WIkipedia in 2-3 clicks
I am banking on the fact that a clean, minimalistic design will encourage people to dive deeper and make more clicks than they might on a busy website that is overwhelming
(Wikipedia is about as simple as you can get, yet people "Go down the rabbit-hole" every day, and wind up 3 hours later asking, "How the hell did that just happen?")
how about you just make an mvp?
Well, I kind of already am because I am not creating my member module or my e-commerce module. (Just pure old-school content for now with no way to monetize)
So, as I see it, that is my MVP - timely content that helps people out
And I'll wrap up my IA here shortly - and I need to, because once Memorial Day hits I want to be be out on the road interviwing people
good, it's always good to have an mvp
What is ironic is that I had a kick-ass website that I was trying to wrap up when I lost my job in Feb 2020 and the pandemic started
Problem is that it wasn't built for mobile
And my business focus has expanded
Something like 50,000 lines of code for naught
But I am excited to be learning mobile-first, and in some ways all of thatw as a blessing, because it is forcing me to get hyper-focused on what my busienss is about and what my website should lokk like and really getting focused on a simple design
(Other than I drive people crazy on Discord!). 😉
mobile-first is super easy: do nothing and it all stacks up
Yeah, I have to admit that I am slowly growing to like mobile
And I have to confess that my brain is now thinking mobile-first after spending the last 4-5 months looking at things on my iPhone
That is another area I am worried about - how to make my design work on desktop - but honestly I'll worry about that later
I think i read that like 70-80% of people consume content on mobile, so even if my desktop solution wasn't so hot, it wouldn't really matter
it matters, trust me
But to your earlier advice, I am trying to do a layered approach and start with a MVP
good, i will wait for it in #showcase
Well, I'm sure I will be back to haunt you all on that later
Right now the goal is to make soemthing that works on mobile, and then hope what you say about just adding stuff on doesn't break the mobile design
I'm sure I might have issues with designing so heavily focused on a hamburger menu, but again, one step at a time
(Not that I have the time, but I bought 30 books off eBay on web dev and mobile so I need to start readings ome of those and hopefully it will fill in any gaps I have)
i would really focus on just making it work, at least
I'll get mobile working first, then make sure it is "responsive" on all devices. (SOme of teh books I bought are on Mobile-First and Mobile Design patetrns, so I'm sure they will help get my mindset into how to develop for alld evices)
yeah, the problem about books is that they get "outdate" after a very short while
True, but they aren't too old, and they are from some of the leading authors
(I bought a book or two on Javascript off eBay - never got one - and there is a case where reading them is probably a waste. But I think a lot of the mobile-first stuff is still mostly true - other than there may be better ways to do things with CSS - but then I have Kevin's videos to cover me there!)
I just learn better from books, and the 6-8 I have read so far back during Thanksgiving were super helpful
if they help you, that's the most important
I think I am happy with my hamburger - I have 3 slides that I made in TextEdit to visualize how it would work on mobile and I like them. (Jury is still out on the spaces around the "/" though!). LOL
Now I am looking at all of my notes about Sections, Sub-Sections, Sub-Sub-Sections and trying to wrap that up
And I am sprinkling a good amount of "FUCK IT" and just going with the design that I feel will make the most sense for my target audience - minus a lack of field testing at the moment
finally, you're moving forward!
keep it up and you will see how much faster you get the mvp done
I'm moving 17 hrs/day - you just have to zoom in to see my progress!! 😆
As mentioned, the IA is the monkey on my back - once that is done things will speed up - at least until I try to learn Python and OOP! 😮
Library is closed tomorrow and it is supposed to be cloudy - good day to go park somewhere quiet and try to really focus on nailing my IA
or, take a day off
No rest for the weary!
For once the library is quiet - so nice! (All of the kids are away today)
I'm going to take full advantage of the peace and quiet right now, plus hopefully Friday and Sunday will be quiet rainy days which is when I can concentrate the best
(Will be so glad when I get all of this done!)
then rest on saturday
I may not be here by then - baseball sized hail reported nearby and 70mph winds
yikes!
Looks like we got lucky. Tornado touched down about 10 miles north of here plus the hail and winds mentioned. Of course the evening is young, so we could get more pop-up storms. (Can't imagine getting hit with baseball sized hail!)
yeah, doesn't sound fun at all