Acid and Base

Someone help my guy
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114 Replies
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Keshav
KeshavOP10mo ago
mujhe bhi same doubt hai
KaiZên
KaiZên10mo ago
Aromaticity counts?
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
+1
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iTeachChem
iTeachChem10mo ago
@!Nimay¡ padhariye please :)
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Lololol 4 mein lp is taking part in resonance and is the cause of aromaticity so it’s bound to not be donated That means worst base khatam ez
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
accha matlab we can't blindly take out lone pairs and check cations ki stability
KaiZên
KaiZên10mo ago
Just as i thought... thank you for the clarity!
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
We just see how ez it is to donate and for that there are many factors Abb 4 mein toh it’s obviously the hardest to donate since its delocalisation is the reason for aromaticity which makes it super extra tough
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
what i'm tryna say here is hame koi ek criteria select karna hai aur usi ko apply karna hai in all the compounds and check for stability, but ow criteria kya hoga we've gotta be careful with that too cus like you said, 4th mein taking out a lone pair isn't feasible at all, so we can't use stability of cation as a criteria of comparison then
Keshav
KeshavOP10mo ago
how do we check polarity of bond? (sorry, noob hun chem mei) aren't stable atoms more acidic?
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
In these cases you just check - aromaticity for 4 - hybridisation for 2, sp2 hybridisation means lesser basic than sp3 - electron withdrawing nature of O making 3 slightly more acidic than 1
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
😭 yahi toh dikkat aa gayi, ham kisi ek factor par chaaro ko compare nahi kar sakte kya?
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Nope
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
f
Keshav
KeshavOP10mo ago
can we add another H and check its stability
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
What will you do
Keshav
KeshavOP10mo ago
check for conjugate base, ig
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
in 2 tho, the lone pair is easily donated cus it isn't a part of conjugation so how do we decide between suppose 2 and 1 accha you already said hybradisation my bad
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Haan
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
ok bhai pura intuition based hai i've got another question
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
For bases you see strength of conjugate acid, weaker the CA stronger the base and for acids you check strength of conjugate base For nitrogenous bases check availability of lp
Keshav
KeshavOP10mo ago
so, if there's an available lp its most likely a base or always?
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
No description
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Generalize krna toh tough hota lmao but yeah lp donation jitna easy utna better base The moment you start generalising stuff in oc they ask something which could be an exception Break the C=O
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
you mean enol isomers banau?
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Well 2 is the most acidic for sure
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
how?
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
S- better than O- After that for the rest just see which is most stable and least stable
iTeachChem
iTeachChem10mo ago
Larger atom. Yea.
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Bana do and then remove the H
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
hear me out 😭 yaha par ham H+ ka attack karwa kar check nahi kar sakte? jaha +ve charge most stable wo most basic
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
A method to check acids with atoms like B,P etc. is by checking their acceptance towards H3O+ in their vacant orbital
Aguilar
Aguilar10mo ago
Can keep that -ve charge in D orbital which is stable
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Whenever you see sulphur in your acid it’s more likely to be better than an oxoacid
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
alr so from this convo maine ye understandting draw kari ki unless there's nitrogen involved, we needn't bother about lone pairs on O/S etc but rather just check for the stabity of cnojugate acids and bases for strength, jab nitrogen aa gaya we gota check for shit like aromaticity too to check the nature of lone pair done scene
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
S is larger than O so S- > O- ye toh hai hi Also S has vacant orbital for backbonding so your anion will be more stable BACKBONDING > AROMATICITY
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
fuck backbodning 😭
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
If there’s sulphur and there’s a backbonding vala lafda toh MAKE SURE TO PRIORITISE IT OVER AROMATICITY Same scene with phosphorus Vacant d orbital game badal deta
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
what does it do
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Whole lotta stability
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
to?
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Anion It’s like resonance on steroids
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
jis atom par -ve charge hai usi ka vacant d orbital?
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Lemme give u an example
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
No description
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
,rotate
TeXit
TeXit10mo ago
No description
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Yeah so compare acidity of Ha and Hb
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
H+ nikalne par carbanion formed which isn't participating in resonance.....hmmm inductive bhi same hi hai dono mein, but i'm assuming P ka d orbital empty so it stabalised C- 🤡
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Right so because of backbonding Hb >>>>>>>>>>>> Ha
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
that many >>>'s? 😭
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Maybe lol Okay mai easier ques deta but mind blowing hai
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
yes pls
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
No description
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
,rotate
TeXit
TeXit10mo ago
No description
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
i mean ofc F ka -I more so 2 more acidic?
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Wrong Cl ke saath backbonding
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
bc Cl mein toh d orbital hai hi nahi....
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Vacant p orbital
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
sheesh
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Poora resonance krke -ve charge jaayega
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
damn +R
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Toppr Ask
CHF{3} is lesser acidic than CHCl{3} . Explain.
Click here👆to get an answer to your question ✍️ chf3 is lesser acidic than chcl3 explain
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Cl in completely excited state does have vacant d orbital
Aguilar
Aguilar10mo ago
How does H bonding compare to aromatic and back bond
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
take a look at this, yaha ham sabke respective most acidic hydrogens ki acidity compare karenge by making conjuagte bases, ryt? @!Nimay¡
No description
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Haan
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
yaha answer 1 hai, but reonance toh 2, 3 mein bhi ho rhi how do we compare
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
H bonding usually makes an acid weaker
Aguilar
Aguilar10mo ago
Acid base strength me nhi, general stability ki baat kre to
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Resonance 2 mein Oxygen ke saath hai O gets a -ve charge that’s very good More Electronegative element with a -ve charge in resonance makes it better Oh wait 2,3 you mean I compared 1,2 3 mein that O with lp at the extreme end is causing counter resonance na
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
oh haan but NO2 toh -R karta hai na....how will it stabalise cation
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
ans is D but how the hell is 1 more acidic than 2 🤯 1 mein toh bas -R ho rha 2 mein at least O-CH3 ka +R toh hai 😭 i'll cry
No description
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
@!Nimay¡ (sorry for pinging 😭 )
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
See which has best quality of resonance
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
best quality ka kya karna hai jab yaha par OCH3 ka +R lag hi rha hai toh usme C+ zyada stable hoga na as compared to 1 jaha no +R
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
The O in 2 and 3 causes counter resonance
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
i'm sorry but could you explain exactly hota kya hai counter resonance mein 😭
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Welp the oxygen competes in resonance and as a result it decreases the quality of our og anion vala resonance which we take into account because that O is donating its lp too so quality bad horha here ans should be 3>1>2 1 aur 2 mein use that concept of quality resonance and 3 is just most acidic because the H is between 2 C=O Agar tum 3 se vo O hata dete singly bonded vala tab toh aur bhi zyada strong ho jata but doesn’t matter its still very acidic those O don’t do much since H is between two C=O But for 1 and 2 the oxygen makes a difference
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
No description
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
,rotate
TeXit
TeXit10mo ago
No description
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
i might be cooked but ye batao....C=O yaha par -R show nahi karega? 😭 destabalising the cation even more
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Bhai anion banao
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
ek min BRUHHHHH I'M SO DUMBBBBBB H+ NIKALNE KE BAAD C- HOGA NA SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESH CARBOCATION BANA RHA THA
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Chill lmao
Aguilar
Aguilar10mo ago
💀
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
although i understand lone pair on N is more stable in aniline isiliye it's a weaker base but but but but @!Nimay¡ in the second one if we compare the stability on conjugate acids, (N+ is formed in both cases right, which is stabalised by resonance too in aniline), so because of a more stable conjugate acid, aniline should be a stronger base rytt
No description
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Noooo as I said look at availability of the lp it is in resonance in case of aniline so cannot be donated
Aguilar
Aguilar10mo ago
aliphatic base strength is always more than aromatic base Just by that b is correct option
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Abbe yaar 😭 Acha haan
Aguilar
Aguilar10mo ago
Lmao
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Not correct as indicated Wait he asked aniline should be a stronger base This is the reason why it’s not
Aguilar
Aguilar10mo ago
Do it this way, Conjugate acid bana, N+ hoga, now see Inductive effect, phenyl does -I effect, already + charge ko aur unstabilise krha hai, but CH3 +I krta hai, to wo stabilise krega + charge ko Hence Aniline weaker base Issi logic se saare options dekh
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
haan toh maine bhi toh wahi kaha, aniline mein N par lone pair more stable so weaker base, iska matlab... jaha bhi nitrogen ho waha par conjugate acid ki stability doesn't mean shit?? but R effect is prefered over I right
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Conjugate acid stability means shit for every base But conjugate acid of aniline is anilinium ion jisko dekh ke tum kya hi analyse kroge In such cases you’d need pka values of the conjugate acid
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
damn but conjugate base ki stability doesn't mean shit for acids?
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Conjugate ka stability always means shit
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
...... aap kehna kya chah rhe ho 😦
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Conjugate acid base theory toh har acid bases ke liye valid hai (jo ionic equilibrium mein padha hai)
Aguilar
Aguilar10mo ago
Conjugate acid/base stability is the most dominating factor to decide stability of acid/base right?
!Nimay¡
!Nimay¡10mo ago
Definitely But in certain cases it’s unrealistic if you don’t know the pka values
Aguilar
Aguilar10mo ago
Ofcourse, it's not chemistry if there are no exceptions
lmaodedXD
lmaodedXD10mo ago
oh alr sir i'll try reaching out to him in DMs koi ni bhai imma rely on my intuition 🛐
iTeachChem
iTeachChem10mo ago
+solved @!Nimay¡
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