Is it possible to alter a suit jacket to fit more like a shirt, in the shoulders?
Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but is it possible to make a suit jacket that doesn't limit the arms/shoulders in flexibility and still, y'know, looks like a suit? E.g. a suit that doesn't tighten up or change position when I try to do more than just lift my arm for a handshake.
And if so, does that jacket have to be custom made, or would it be possible to buy a jacket off the rack and have it altered? (even if that meant buying a size up so that, say, the shoulder had more fabric to alter)
34 Replies
You can't alter the shoulders of a Suit Jacket. If the jacket is restricting your movement that just means it doesn't fit.
I'm not sure what you mean by restricting movement and "doesn't fit". It's not that it restricts movement so much as the jacket moves when it shouldn't.
I have never in my life found an off the rack jacket at any store - suit supply, nordstroms, nordstroms rack, dillards - nowhere have I ever found a jacket that ever had a small enough arm hole for me. I have tried on at least a hundred+ jackets in my life. it's not like I have tiny noodle arms. I'm not buff but I'm pretty average, I played sports all my life.
Anyways, so what I find is that because the arm/shoulder hole is so big, I raise my arm and by the time I've lifted it at more than a handshake's level, because the arm hole is so big there is no more fabric left to accommodate my arm being raised, and the torso of the jacket, particularly on that arm-side, begins to lift.
This isn't - in my opinion - how proper clothes should fit. I have off the rack t-shirts that are 100% cotton, no spandex necessary, that are cut well enough to my arm that I have 100% flexibility in my arm and the torso won't move but maybe half an inch. That kind of freedom is what I'm looking for in a suit jacket and I haven't found a single jacket or brand in any size or store that comes even remotely close. It feels like all suit jackets are cut poorly for arm movement.
Edit - and something I feel very strongly about when deciding if a shirt or what-have-you is cut properly for my body shape - I personally feel that I should be able to raise my arm like I'm asking a question, and the fabric of the torso cut under the arm should not raise above my waistline so as to expose an undershirt. Anything more than an inch or two of lift is unacceptable
@gimp
Alter? Effectively no. Make? Yes but it's an expensive process requiring significant iteration
Short story, off the rack suits are designed to fit as many body types as possible while looking good enough that the maker is happy with the style. That requires a fairly low armhole, as compared to the tightness an armhole can have when you design it for one person
Even going full bespoke, there will generally be an assumption that you use the suit like most people use a suit, ie, you don't stretch your arms out too far to the side or upwards. If you want to avoid that assumption you have to make it very very clear
The usual example pointed to is Fred Astaire, one moment please
You want to basically do what he's doing and have the garment do what his tailcoat is doing, yes?
Yes, I want jackets that fit like his does. I do have a niche "need" for this kind of cut. I mean, I live in a first world country, it's a luxury not a need, but you get the point.
And, actually, hahah, it's for the same reason. I like to dance (a lot).
The way he and his tailor(s) accomplished this is, first of all, with a comically tight armhole, that was shaped perfectly for his body; it was quite hard for him to get his arms in and out of the jacket but once in it fit perfectly without the usual issues of incorrectly sized (tight) armholes like dimples and divots
But the second part to that puzzle was iteration. IE, a lot of labor spent (and a lot of cost) to get it to work out
You are absolutely not the only one johnny!
There's lots of fairly niche dancing that requires various levels of formalwear, including white tie (venetian waltz iirc is one)
But I am sorry to say that the only way I know of to accomplish this is full and proper bespoke, and not with any old tailor, but one who is interested, willing, and capable of working on this, because even in bespoke-land it's quite a niche request. None of the armholes on the suits/jackets I've had made are even close to this (because they do not need to be.) They're way better than anything OTR but nothing like this, because it's risky and I don't need to pay for that kind of risk ;)
I think styleforum has discussed this at length, especially if you search for fred astaire. I suspect there's a lot of work beyond just a tight armhole, things like a sous bra, but likely significantly more than that, to ensure nothing rips as you dance
Plus, obviously, very unstructured shoulders, likely only with canvas and potentially even not that (I think.)
I should note I am no sort of tailor so take anything I say with a teaspoon of salt
Out of curiosity what degree of freedom would you say you have in your (presumed) bespoke jackets? Not every jacket needs to be a performance jacket - but I am just simply not satisfied with the jackets I have tried OTR at any price point that I think are your generic middle class suiters (brooks brothers, peter millar, etc).
Dance jackets are a thing and one of your local dance companies (if near a big city) might be able to assist you in sourcing one.
TIL
I do live in a big city. Unfortunately I don't belong to a dedicated dance company but maybe they will help out strangers 🙂 dancing is just a hobby, like one would go play pick up basketball after work.
Respectable. Better than anything OTR, and most of my OTR stuff is also pretty decent in not having a silly low armhole. But not even close to good enough for your use case. I'd need to take out my jackets, and pose in them, and photograph it, for you, to get a real answer
As Gimp suggested, they're made with a very different structure, small armholes and the ones I've seen use a high twist wool gusset under the arm pit and sometimes across the upper back for stretch.
Do you think you could raise your arms to shoulder level? As if to hold your palm out flat and do a roman salute.
IME Costume designers often get excited about sharing their work so it's worth asking.
Yeah, mechanical stretch is different from elastane. Wools can have a fair bit of mechanical stretch
why would you need to do this 
I don't recall. I would need to throw a jacket on and do it. I just want to reiterate that I did not prioritize this when we designed the suits and discussed the details, so it's probably not going to be adequate for your needs, but it'd be a useful photo series to compare different jackets and how much they deform at both the shoulder and the bottom of the jacket when raising arms in various positions
Hahahahah I'm just trying to gauge flexibility. But for what it's worth it's common in partner dancing to swing your partner out a bit with your arms raised.
Next up johnnyboy asks me to raise my arm up higher with the palm out, saves the photo for blackmail purposes
hahahahah
This is definitely going a bit off-the-discord but if you want, reach out to the user The Chai on styleforum, he regularly commissions suits (including white tie) for very vigorous dancing. He will have excellent, first hand practical advice.
Is he a tailor or just someone with the same needs? Only curious, will probably hit him up
Not a tailor, but a guy who dances.
And yeah to be clear I'm not, like, going to go on AGT or anything like that. I just like looking sharp when it's appropriate and I love a good looking suit. I would dress that fly every day if I could afford to and was wearing suits that fit the way I want them to. I mean its not like every suit needs to be dance-ready, even just being able to go to work and sit down at a desk to work and not have to always take off the jacket would be great. In my experience jackets have been nothing more than photowear for me. Show up somewhere, take it off, put it on to stand for photos, take it back off. Blegh. Why even own one.
I want to dig into that a little. Why do you feel the need to take a jacket off when sitting? Temperature? Wrinkling / creasing against the seat? Or do you feel the shoulders pop and collar gaps when you sit down? Does this happen in any seated position and surface (couch, office chair, dining chair, etc)?
A little bit of everything. I've owned probably 5-10 suits ranging from chinese polyester to clearance-priced 100% wool brooks brothers.
They each have their inconsistencies, even after tailoring. Maybe my shoulder pockets feel too big, and I feel this crunch of fabric underneath the armpit. Maybe the lapel is too tight and it pops. Maybe the label is too big and it pops. Maybe the jacket is too long (I am 5'7 and mostly legs so I'm... pretty small in the torso. Albeit i have average muscle and shoulders at 38" and I can bench a plate.).
Driving is something I certainly have never been able to do. Always always have to take the jacket off to drive. The shoulder is too tight despite wearing a suit that was bought up and then tapered in, the tail wrinkles, the label creases right where the seatbelt wants to be...
But suffice to say, "yes" to all of the above. It's small inconsistencies. Small but noticeable imperfections that when added up just drive me crazy. So I find myself just using suit jackets as kinda decorative wear. I'll put it on for all the mixing and hubbub but - lets say I wore it to work. I'm only wearing it for presentations, you know? If I have any actual work that needs done where I need to sit down, put on headphones and focus on my thing, that jacket is coming off. And I'm not a salesman, so you can do the math on how (not) often I'm presenting, and as such how little I get to wear my jackets.
I'm gonna think of a decent response to this as I drive and do stuff, but I think, as much as I hate to say it, that these are to at least a decent extent fit issues. I'll circle back with better thoughts.
Oh I'm almost certain it's fit issues, hahah. But I've gone to multiple tailors to have them do a cheap jacket for me, and tried a variety of sizes. I've tried/own a 36, which I could pull off when I was younger and had less bodymass, but 100% does not fit anymore. I wear a 38S today, and 40S I am 95% certain is too big. So I mean... what else can you do?
My guess was/is - I'm going to have to commission bespoke to find something satisfactory.
Dance-quality fitting would be the cream of the crop, but I would settle for general life flexibility. E.g. the ability to take photos and raise my arms around my friends backs and not see my jacket pop. Or be able to sit comfortably at work in my jacket all day (with arms raised at my desk as I type), with no pop, or on the couch or wherever. I would 100% settle for a suit jacket being as flexible as, say, a ski jacket.
And thank you very much, btw, for your input and help.
This is a really dumb question but I gotta cover the basics: do you unbutton your jacket when you sit down?
Well, yes, but that introduces it's own host of issues. I feel like a proper jacket when unbuttoned should still remain fairly orderly. It's not like I have a big gut - I don't. I'm in shape. And yet I always find my jackets flair open when i sit like as if wind were blowing them open. And then the tail catches or the back creases... I don't know, man.
Maybe I'm just way too sensitive, in all sincerity. I am definitely in the.. you know, the highly highly masking functional end of the spectrum. Not enough symptoms to meet a diagnosis but.. lets not kid ourselves... hahahah.
And if that is the case then that's good information too. I don't mean this in any kind of demeaning way or weird way. There's definitely a handful of things where I think a lot of guys/people just don't have sensory issues with said thing, and I forced myself to become comfortable with it through practice (like playing sports in the mud. I hate it with a passion, but most men think it's god's gift on earth to play football in the mud, so.. you do it). If that's the case, I mean, that's life. Maybe everyone else just doesn't mind these little things.
Yeah, in general when you sit down and unbutton a jacket it should remain in decent shape, though sometimes the rear hem crumples against where you sit (bottom or back.) I'd be quite curious to see some photos btw, let's say of your best fitting jacket or two (the usual set of photos with the usual dress.) It's possible there's something obvious I can diagnose, though, if you've gone to actual professionals, I assume it's mostly a problem of low armhole, fairly structured and probably padded shoulder, etc. I will do my best to get some photos to you on this subject.
Beyond questions of fit, armhole, and structure, the other thing I do wonder about is comfort, both physically and mentally. Do you consider yourself wearing tailoring comfortable from both perspectives? I think physically you consider it at least somewhat uncomfortable because of your expectations on your movement vs jacket movement, but beyond that, if you just walk down the street for example? And from a mental point of view, do you feel at home in a sport coat or suit?
Honestly, I ballroom dance and my MtM suits are enough for this. Tight armhole, if that's not enough a competent tailor can insert gussets as suggested above, and quite common for dancers I might add. It will be enough even for swing dancing, any dance even.